Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Ramsey, Ivy (O1996.15) |
| Interviewee | Miss Ivy Ramsey (IR) |
| Interviewer | Jean Riddell Purkis (JRP) |
| Date | 30/05/1996 |
| Transcriber by | Jean Riddell Purkis |
Transcript
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no: O 1996.15
Interviewee: Miss Ivy Ramsey (IR)
Date: May 30th, l996
Venue: no. 32 Byde Street, Hertford
Interviewers: Jean Riddell Purkis (JRP)
Transcriber: Jean Riddell Purkis (JRP)
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s note
Also present: Connie Clement (CC), 47 Byde Street and Reg Purkis (RP), 7 Molewood Road, Hertford.
This is Jean Riddell from 32 Byde Street, the home of Ivy Ramsey and Connie Clements is here too and she's from across the road at 47 and she's been helping Ivy because Ivy's been a bit infirm recently and Ivy is going to tell us a bit about St. Andrew Street and the fish shop where she was born, which was no. 8.
JRP: Was the fish shop called Ramseys?
IR: On the wall you'll find (a photograph) my father outside the fish shop.
JRP: That shop is still there.
IR: It's an antique shop now (The Old Cross Tavern by 2012)
JRP: A double fronted shop with the door in the middle.
IR: I was born in that top room nearly 89 years ago!
JRP: Right, so you're 88 now, nearly 89?
IR: No! I won't be 89 'til April.
JRP: Oh, right, another year ro go then....just 88!
IR: That's if the devil doesn't have me for a housekeeper.
JRP: How long have you two known each other, then?
IR: Since Murphy's days...I didn't know you much before then, did I?
CC: Not early days....you moved up here in l953.
JRP: So, did you live at the shop until that time?
IR: No, we had to....well all me people died together you se and I had to get out....it was too large a house for me to keep going. A friend of mine (Bessie Startim, aka Coulson, also a former trade in st Andrew Street at no 38, The Little Bell public house)took me up to North Road Avenue (no. 11) and I was up there five years and the gentleman who bought the house (no.8) he stored what bit I wanted, like those chairs and other things and all the cutlery down at the stables we had there...never saw them for over 5 years and he then ...he sold the house....he turned it into flats and hw said to me Ivy, that was Morrell....used to have a paint shop up St. Andrew Street.....I'd like you to see the old home now I'm altering it. I wanted to see everything naturally. We went round the back....there's a staircase going down like the old days with a banister....Oh, I said, Mr. Morrell the kitchen's still the same then. He said, oh yes. When I got to the top, quite brave, I went across another little hall onto a long passage...going along there to the big room....you'd get four sets of Lancers in that if you'd taken the furniture out and a grand piana as well, so you can tell what it was like there, and sitting room and dad's office. I didn't worry until we got to the big room.....got near the fireplace....no, sorry got near the stairs...'cos he said Ivy, we've had to take the spiral staircase down to make a flat...I had an awful feeling come over me.......I turned on my heels and I went down, back down the kitchen stairs and out the back and I ran all the way home here, and I laid on the floor and I sobbed me heart out.
I've never cried since - I've got no tears left now - and when I saw him, I wouldn't go down St. Andrew Street, I wouldn't go down there at all, would I Con, and after a bit I got over the silly nonsense and then I saw Mr. Morrell 'cos he came up here to his daughter and I called him in, I said, I am so sorry I left you like that. He said, I fully understand, I shouldn't have asked you really, but I didn't want you to think I'd altered all the house without letting you know or showing you. I said I'd rather remember as it used to be. He said, I don't blame you. I've got me memories there, and I wanted to see what they've done, the other half....leave well alone at your age....are you with me?
JRP: Oh, I am, yes.....well, tell us a bit about the shop and the house.
IR: Well, Mum and Dad went there when they were 25. We was all born there, my sister died in l942 and the houses up the old St. Andrew Street....it's not much altered al lot, Botsfords....do you remember Botsfords?
JRP: No.
IR: They used to live next door....greengrocers....oh, quite a lot and then drill hall ....that's still there? (? Botsfords (no 10?) a sweet shop; greengrocers (Cooks at no 12?) further up where Louise photographers is 2014. Sweet shop kept by Mrs Botsford and Mrs Flo Bunyan (sisters). Mrs Botsford married to Botsford builder – see Glynis Blakes’ recording)
JRP: Yes.
IR: And the back of the drill hall went to the back of our our garden so I used to put all the buttons and that on the troops' shirts if they were going to meet the girls and it was all right there. And when you got up the top of St. Andrew Street where the garage is, it was a forked road like that, one went to Hertingfordbury, didn't it Reg.....and the other one went to North Road.
JRP: Did your father actually do any smoking of fish?
IR: We did everything. We had our own smoke hole, we smoked all the big shoulders of ham for Bates that used to be in Fore Street...a big grocers shop, wasn't it, Reg....Bates....we did all their bacon and we smoked all our own haddocks and when my father fell sick we was only allowed to use the smoke hole and smoke the haddocks on oak dust only and one day I put a bit of wood on...it was because we'd got a party going and I wanted to get down there quick and got hauled over the coals about it. And then Mum used to make red soldiers....you wouldn't know what they are, dear, but something like a smoked mackeral and she used to do little jars like that....3d a jar. Mum worked hard with those sort of things and we did everything like that....cooked our own crabs and everything.
JRP: Where was the fish from, was it brought up from the station?
IR: It came up on the Northern Railway every morning and all the boxes, and there was a big house in our garden, where Blands used to live (Blands electrical – 6 St Andrew Street), between Blands and us....'cos they're all finished aren't they, there's a big gateway - that was our backway and our garden went right down to Bob Hill's (7 Cowbridge). I'd like to see all that. One of these days when I feel I can, I'd like to go in and see that house (in Dimsdale Street – Bob Hill’s was across Dimsdale Street)....they were altering it once when I went to the doctor's and I must have looked an old hag because it was pouring with rain - I'd got a scarf on and we came by there, didn't we Con, and I saw all the work men in the garden and I don't know what happened but you get these sillies come over you, don't you, I was up there afore I knew where I was and "oh, " I said "whatever have you done with all my lovely garden?"..."I don't know" he said "we only bleed'n well work 'ere!" I was so annoyed, I said "well, I only asked!"
JRP: They were building, were they?
IR: Building, and I haven't been up there since.
CC: Then you went in the shop before you knew where you were.
IR: They then turned it into....I think it's changed ever so many times....
CC: Yes it has, yeah.
IR: Antiques and em, went down there to go to the doctor's and I looked and I thought "my God! the old fireplace!" Phyllis, that's my sister, she's 92 now, her and I used to sit in it...it was a big one you know, and there was a lovely big picture too, but I saw this fireplace, first time I'd seen it and before I knew where I was I was in that shop and I didn't realise until the man came up and said "can I help you madam?" Oh, I did feel a fool, I just felt like this (small), didn't know what to say to him.
JRP: Did you tell him you used to live there?
IR: I started, but I was in another world, and I said, oh, I'm sorry, I've not come in ot buy, but I don't know what made me come in here - It was the fireplace - yes he said, isn't it a wicked sin, we've just unlocked it, it's been boarded up. So I said, yes, I know. You know?, he said...I'd like to get hold of the person that boarded it, I said you won't, they've been dead a few years. How do you know? I said it was my father that done it. Oh, then of course one thing led to another, then I said did you find a nice picture here? Yes, he said, of a ship. So I said yes, an old tramp painted that outside the shop and my mother gave him some fish and a meal while he done it and dad had it hanging up in the shop. How it got behind the fireplace gawd only knows, Reg! And I said I wonder what happened to it ; he said I've got it. I said thank God it's got a good home. I was so ill when we left there that I don't remember half of it. Stuff was left and sold with the house as it was and my sister only said the other day what happened to those lovely tapestry pictures and I couldn't tell her. I was in Woodford a long time and couldn't remember. Now I often sit and think....I suppose Mr. Morrell had it, sold 'em.
JRP: Yes.............you lived opposite to this Baxter family did you?
IR: Yes, they had a game shop ......pheasants.
CC: We used to go down there and get pheasants.
IR: And then there was a public house next door.
JRP: When you went to see the Baxters for pheasants, did you have to go up the alleyway in the archway?
IR: No, they had a shop where the chemist is now, (Kingswoods) they had a shop.
JRP: There was a shop front there....the door wasn't round the side?
IR: No, that was a private door to Misses Dickins .....they had the flat upstairs.
JRP: Somebody remembered a plate next to the door saying 'Poulterer'...it was Baxters' door....you don't remember it.
IR: The other side, they went the other side, Baxters did, to live and Dickins was over the shop.
JRP: And were the Baxters any relation to a greengrocer Baxter in the Wash?
IR: That's right, she was old Mrs. Baxter, old lady she was, this is one of the sons.
JRP: Min was the mother?
IR: And there was a sister that lived up North Road for a long, long time.
JRP: Did Min have a meadow or some fields over by.....the other side of the Castle grounds....the water meadows really...
IR: That's right.
JRP: What did she use those for, grazing was it?
IR: No, I think they had it for everything, 'cos we used to go down there skating.
JRP: Oh, I see, it wasn't used for animals at all....
IR: Oh no, it had horses down there I think, and I think they had some pigs down there.
JRP: But it was her land, was it?
IR: The old lady's land, but when I was young it was Mr. Baxter that was opposite us....I knew more, I knew the old lady for a little while, but I was young, I used to go in there ....opposite the Castle.
JRP: Were they any relation to Baxter the hangman?
IR: I don't know whether it was his brother, it was a relation of some sort.
JRP: Oh, was it?
IR: Oh, yes, they were related, 'cos he committed suicide.
JRP: Oh, did he, what the hangman?
IR: Yes. Nice man he was, very nice. They lived along North Road (116), past North Road Avenue on the right hand side.
JRP: But did they live up here once, Reg?
RP: I thought Baxter the hangman lived in Wellington Street.
CC: There was a hanman that hung people used to live along Wellington Street.
IR: Yes, well, perhaps he moved up to North Road.
JRP: It's the same man then?
IR: As far's I know 'tis.
JRP: So that's tied up a few loose end I think...people get confused with the Baxter family....apparently Min Baxter used to have something to do with the Dye family...is that right....in Hertingfordbury Road?
IR: The Dyes, well that I couldn't tell you...I think they were all slightly connected.
JRP: Right, because she played with the grandchildren of the Dyes.
IR: I knew all the Dyes...'cos they're all finished now since they went to Ware and they're all gone now. Some of them went down the road where Peter lives, 'cos I can remember his mother and father.
JRP: Yes, you remember his mother quite well, do you?
IR: Yes, his father was a very short stout man (not Peter Ruffles’ father!)
JRP: Oh!
IR: And then there was Wacketts lived up there that had the cycle shop and his brother lived further up.
JRP: Did you once go to St. Andrew's Church?
IR: I was christened there and I was confirmed there.
JRP: So when you moved here, was it too far to go then?
IR: No, I went down for quite a while. I wasn't a big religious person but I couldn't have my breakfast with having communion and I always did that down St. Andrew's Street and when I come up here, I did the same thing and one day I was queer and I couldn't do it and I went up to Bengeo Church then...'cos all my people are buried in Bengeo Churchyard. And that changed that. It wasn't the same, 'cos St. Andrew's is more of a ....well, in that time, it was very high, wasn't it Reg?
JRP: Well, it still is now.
IR: It's not so high as it was, though.
JRP: Is it not?
IR: No, no, no, 'cos I know most of them there and they altered it a lot because I went to a wedding quite a few years ago and they'd altered it a lot then. But it used to be beautiful years ago, didn't it Reg.....
RP: Yes.
IR: I liked the altar and they've altered all that.
JRP: Yes, they've got a central altar now....I don't like that.
IR: But mind you, as time goes on, they've got to alter...I mean you've got to move with the times but I used to like it in the old days....same they've altered all Bengeo, so they tell me. But they've pinched everything up on Bengeo. They've even took Rose's vase, and they took the flowers for a long long time and I said, right, I'll do nothing, I'll have it all levelled because the workmen can mow the grass better - so I had it all levelled to help them, being as I was sick, and I told the parson and I used to give him the money for the church, he said one day, the council has taken this over now, Ivy, so you needn't pay the money. I said, while I can, I will and you can put the money to the church flowers and I did that 'til it all changed hands. Then when they done a lot of vandalism up there, they've done a lot of rough work up there, I said right, I don't care what people think of me, I'll have them here, in the house because you've always got your memories, haven't you Reg and that doesn't make any difference and they used to love buttercups and cowslips and I used to go over Beane Road and pick'em and dandelions and one day Connie came over to me and said someone said can't Ivy afford to buy any flowers....we'll buy her some. I said I'll buy them what they wanted and not what other people want and now I don't go up there at all, and when the first rose comes out, I have it in a vase and I put it there...that's Rose's, and the first carnation comes out, it goes there and the carnation's for Dad....I think it's better, you don't have to go in a churchyard for memories.
JRP: You knew quite a few people at St. Andrew's, didn't you?
IR: Oh yes, in those days it used to be packed.
JRP: Who were you specially friendly with there?
IR: Gladys Wackett. She was my bosom friend, I was very upset when she went and to cut a long story short, I had an oleander and it's still blooming, Reg, and when I went over to the Kingfisher, Mrs. Cook wanted to have it. She said, I don't care what you ask for it, Ivy, I want it. I said, you won't have it, and money will never pay for it. Because it's of sentimental value.
So, now what else can I tell you? All the way down there was a hairdressers, Doris Shadbolt had a hairdressers over the other side of the road at St. Andrew's Street and there was a cafe and there was a sweet shop.
JRP: Can you remember a Miss Hoad?
IR: Oh, yes! (laughs).
JRP: Tell us about her.
IR: She lived in one of the little houses where the antique shop is now....what do they call that Reg? It was a newsagent.
JRP: It was Palmers, the shop she worked in.
IR: Palmers, yes and then she went to live at this other place....it was a paper shop, Reg, whatever was the woman's name kept it....then you went down that alley to that big house that's antiques now with the lions infront, just sold it, hasn't he.
JRP: I know, that's number 25, isn't it.
IR: Well, she used to live up there somewhere.
JRP: What sort of person was she?
IR: Oh, funny! She used to make these 'ere big slippers and go up and down, and she was abit erratic of course you know, and of course a lot of kids used to make fun of her, but I got on all right with her...we used to talk to her, and you know, as if she was as good as we, like, she was quite happy about it. Then there was 2 yards with people living down there and they used to fight like the cats and dogs.
JRP: Was that Oaker's Buildings?
IR: Where was the watch shop, Reg......Mills......
JRP: Yes, there was an archway you went down.
IR: Yes, that's right there was houses both sides.
JRP: I think it might have been called Colemans Yard as well.
IR: I think you got it right 'cos when we had the fish shop, dad used to.....when the stuff got.....let the people have the haddocks the same price....they were 3d and 6d and we get the entra penny in Lady Faudel Phillips and people like that we swerved so he still looked after them down there.
JRP: That was nice.
IR: And it annoyed me one day....did you know Percy Coleman on Mill Bridge?
JRP: Just, yes.
IR: Well, I knew all the Colemans, I knew them when his brother was down Railway Street, but Dennis I can remember growing up. I was very friendly with Mrs. Coleman and that was quite a while ago because they've been dead some while....(the original point was lost here)
now what else was there, butchers shops, two butchers shops near the river and one near the fish shop, now The Frying Pan....that was an ordinary butchers shop. Then there was McMullens the seed shop where it's.....building people were there last time because I haven't been down to town for sixteen months.
JRP: Well, that McMullens' Seed Warehouse is now part of the museum....it's been restored very well and looks nice.
IR: Oh, well, where I lodged, they were friendly with the man that used to work down there.
JRP: We've just been, well, last year Peter went to interview Doris Paddick from The Bouquet.
IR: Oh, I know her, yes.
JRP: She gave a very pleasant interview...she talked about everyone living over the shops.
IR: That's right, well, it's all changed now. Pratts, where the betting shop's on the corner, right opposite the Castle (Hall).........my sister went there when it just opened. They had those posters when they put the War Memorial up and she had one and it's been there ever since. That was a lovely shop. That's all changed. Then the Co-op had it, didn't they, Reg for a long time, then it turned into a betting shop. But everything's altered so.
JRP: Where was Baxters the greengrocer then....around there? (Mr Paddock had it for a time as a Greengrocers next to his wife’s florist shop)
IR: Right opposite the Castle Hall.
JRP: Oh, quite near the Bouquet.
IR: Oh, yes, it was between the Bouquet and what's the paper shop? (Middletons)
JRP: The one now is Martins.
IR: Martins. It was between those and then on the corner where you go down to McMullens was Youngs the baker 'cos we used to have elephants come down St. Andrew Street. They wouldn't pass our shop until Mum gave them a bun. And they wouldn't pass Youngs until she came out and gave them a bun.
JRP: So there was a traffic hold up until someone came out with a bun!
IR: Always, yes. And then the troops all used to come through there you see when the war was on and then one day I was in one of the rooms and I was playing 'Onward Christian Soldiers' and these troops came through. The windows were wide open ....they had an awful job to control them....to stop them from jumping in the windows, it was really funny. We used to have lovely parties down there.
JRP: What was the traffic like then?
IR: It was only horses and carts then, 'cos I used to go out and get the manure and that I did here when I first come up hers, for the garden. I daren't look at me garden now.
JRP: Who were your dad's customers....did he have quite a lot of well-known......
IR: Well, yes, we served all....I don't want to.....bigheaded, but we served all Lady Faudel Phillips and all the high class up Tewin and all round there and we had all the high class industry...what wa his name, Reg, that he had a....on Mill Bridge....Dad always went in there and had a rose every morning...Cole was his name. When I was ill once I laid here and I'd only got one arm and I had to have something to do to stop me thinking about meself so Connie went and got me a 6d scrapbook and we used to have on the paper every week 'All Our Yesterdays'. Well, I cut them out, the ones I wanted, and I had some flour and water here and I put them in there with the one arm...had I done one way and one the other (it would have been better)....if I'd left it single as it should have been....but if anyone wanted one badly they could copy it....I often said Peter would love to see that. But I lent it once to someone and I did have a job to get it back. Where the War Memorial is now, we can remember that being built of course, and the back of that was a barbers' shop (Nightingales) and I've got pictures of it all.
JRP: Was it Brutons there?
RP: Brutons was a clothier.
IR: Then there's a trough outside the public house that my father helped put there: that's at the top of Bengeo....Port Hill. I have got a book of old Hertford, I bought it off Mr. Green (trough outside Red Lion, St Andrew Street, which went to Sacombe Road/Wadesmill Road junction)
SIDE B
This is Jean again. I forgot to say that the date today is Thursday May 30th, l996. Now we've had one side of the tape and Ivy's going to tell us a bit about her schooldays at St. Andrew's School.
IR: I don't really know much about it!
JRP: Well, have a try! When you went, there who were the teachers?
IR: I don't remember.
JRP: Do you remember Miss Turnbull?
IR: Oh yes, Miss Turnbull, she lived near Peter somewhere.
JRP: Yes, next door....what was she when you were there....the head?
IR: Yes, and I was trying to think who we had....only the other day I let my neice have me photograph in school.
JRP: Yes. Did you know a Miss Row?
IR: She was there, I remember Miss Row and Miss Cutts, Miss Turnbull. All the children from St. Andrew Street went there...Wacketts and Patemans...the milkshop up there, Reg, wasn't it? Then there was another yard at the back that the O'Smotherlys lived in.
JRP: Who were your friends at school in your class.
IR: I still keep in touch with........Ware...Con.....
CC: Who?
IR: They used to go to Ware. They used to live down the yard. Her sister's got Buttons and Bows.
CC: Oh, her....Peggy......oh blimey Ivy!
IR: Then there was the Wacketts, there was her....
CC: The one that worked at Colemans-
IR: Yeah, that's right and then there was all of them that used to be in St. Andrew Street, but they're all gone now, all dead. But they all went there.
JRP: Was Gladys Wackett in your....
IR: Yes, Gladys and I were good friends and I still keep in touch with Ivy......Ansell!
We used to play mothers and fathers at school. And she's getting on now of course, she lives at Ware, but we still keep in touch, and it's her daughter that's got the Buttons and bows up...
JRP: Yes, in fact she died recently.....she was Ivy Osborne, wasn't she, she lived with her son, Ron.
IR: That's it.....she died?
JRP: Yes, I think the funeral was about a month ago.
IR: Connie hasn't been up Buttons and Bows because Elsie, her daughter, the youngest one, they used to live down the yard by Millses and then she married a gentleman at Ware.
JRP: The one you've just mentioned, Elsie Hockley?
IR: That's right, you've got it.
JRP: We'd interviewed her on tape and Ivy...they're both on tape.
IR: Oh lovely, I still kept in with Ivy on her birthday and Christmas.
JRP: She became quite housebound, Ivy. She was in a chair and her son Ron looked after her.
IR: Old Marjorie North used to be in St. Andrew Street. I went to school with her, she died....she married Mr. Hinds from McMullens......3 or 4 months ago. And I knew the lady, they're not allowed to rake them down, are they, I met one of them that lived in the house, she was at the Post Office Reg, what was her name....she died....but the lady that I met in QEII...she's got a little cottage up there.
(Then some talk about 'the gang' at the Millstream pub and Ivy's Guinness ration keeping her going)
IR: When I went to stay up North Road Avenue, opposite St Andrew’s Church was Coulsons (at the Little Bell) and that's where I first met everybody there and when they went up there and sold the pub, Bessie Coulson, she was a Ware person, you know.......(this part was a little confused; the conversation turned to the scap book and the hazards of lending it out, and 'Mr. Green's' book.)
JRP: Connie, how did you first meet Ivy?
IR: On the train, we used to go on the train down here.
CC: When I first went to....during the war I got conscripted to Waltham Crosson the cordite mills and we did three shifts, nightwork, early morning and afternoon and evening and I was there a few years then they closed that down and sent me to Murphy's and I first met Ivy....we used to travel on the train.
IR: I had a terrible reputation on the railway at North Road. Mr. Overton the foreman....
CC: Sometimes they used to call out...is Ivy on the train?...no?...we can't wait.....oh, 'ere she comes!...and they'd stop the train and shove 'er in the guard box. She had a terrible reputation up there, and one day they 'adn't got any room so they put her up on the rack.
IR: Well I was late and it was full of all the men but they were lovely, not one of them was bad at all and we really had some laughs. I said if you don't let me down, I'll hit you on the head and I went to hit him and I knocked his cap off. I didn't know the window was open and his cap went out the window and he daren't go home without it so he had to borrow somebody else's.
JRP: So you travelled together......
IR: Yes, I'm trying to think who travelled on the railway with us during the war....it was all women, I know, and we had a candle in the jam jar and the siren went and we was between Hertingfordbury and Hertford and I did want to do a jimmy, excuse me Reg....we,, he know me....I can't help it, we're all women together. Take the candle out ...I'll do it in the jam....... and the siren had gone and we were waiting for Gerry to drop something and we just didn't care, dear, and I tried to, and of course I fell over and everybody was laughing and 'course you couldn't see one another ....eventually we pulled ourselves together.
JRP: Did the train actually stop, then?
IR: Oh yes and then one day it happened again and that was with all these men. And he said Hertford! we're at Hertford now ! I said 'tisn't...that siren went, didn't it?....no, you're imagining things...you're daft, I said I know that, otherwise I wouldn't be in here with you lot and then with that they all got out.........no, I wanted to go to the toilet....that's right.....and there was a toilet in the carriage, do you know, dear, I wenr in and they locked me in. Oh, I wa so mad, I said, if you don't let me our I won't speak to any of you again....I said I can't help it, I didn't know how long we were going to be here and I was rattlin' off to meself there....I'm going to report you all....I'm not going to travel on this train any more....then all of a sudden a heard a posh voice say...wh's in there? I said, you know damned well who's in here, it's me, I said, you unlock it out there....they said, hang on a minute we'll get a key. I said thank God for that. When they opened it it was only an inspector with another man and there wasn't a soul in the carriage. He said what's happening? I said they pushed me in here and locked me in....I didn't tell them I wanted to do a jimmy....and they told me we were at Hertford. He said, you wasn't at Hertford, you was outside the signal box, they threw you in there then they got out then they had to ge back again to get to Hertford North Station and of course they never told you, they left you in there and now you are up the siding. If these men hadn't got on, I'd still be there, Reg.
JRP: How can you lock a door, though, from the outside?
IR: I don't know, dear, but it was locked and I couldn't get out!
JRP: But normally the lock's inside..........
IR: And I had to walk from the signal box on my feet until I got to the station all all them blighters were at the top of the steps. I never went out to work 'til I was 36. My mother used to say, no need....if you went to work, my girl, you'd get the sack the first day. In St. Andrew Street I was very ill. I don't remember much about it....they took me to Woodford.
JRP: What did you have wrong?
IR: Everything. See, Mum and Dad died together, practically, and then the war....everything was up the creek altogether.
JRP: So this was after the war?
IR: Yes. I went up there, when I came back I thought, well, I've got to live alone, and then the war broke out and of course they were conscripting you, weren't they. They let me off for a while, then I had a letter saying I'd got to go to work. So I was in St. Andrew Street all along. Well, we had the doodle bug on Old Cross. I was alone then.
JRP: We just had James Barber on tape telling us about the doodle bug. He was a little boy then.
IR: Oh, James Barber, I know, he was in a pram (?) I used to love his mother, she was a lovely person....she was Italian....Bianca was her name.......she married Tommy Barber. I went there to learn the violin, Reg, but I never learned nothing!Their back came round to us, and that James was a little devil...cry?....i used to look out my kitchen window and say, James, if you don't be quiet I'll come down and I'll smack your bottom and give you something to cry for. And he never forgot it, and we went down there once, didn't we Con, because we used to have parties in St. Andrew Street and then we used to have parties at Tommy Barber's.
CC: Then they used to live up here, didn't they....Farquhar Street.
IR: And I went up there quite a lot to see her, because I liked her very, very much. Her mother lived in a house along St. Andrew Street, somewhere, can't remember what her name was....had a daughter, didn't they, don't know what happened to her, I met her once in Hertford.
She was quite an elderly person and she said, oh, Ivy, and I said, yes, and I've never met her since and I don't know if they gone or what happened.
JRP: Is this the daughter...Bianca's sister?
IR: I suppose it would be, or cousin.
JRP: James actually said that his mother came to live in St. Andrew Street opposite the church with her mother and they opened a dress making business but I don't know exactly which shop it was. (Radiétange? 44 St Andrew Street – now a chemists)
IR: Right opposite....somewhere along there where Doris Shadbolt had a hair dressers there and Palmers....
CC: Cross and Palmers, yes.
IR: Now, what's that old shoe shop that was there....can you remember, Reg? (??Parrotts? Dews?)
RP: Roche?
IR: No! Roche? No! ....some relation to Bianca's mother. And there was all them that lived down the yard where the doctor's house is, where the carpark is.....Dearmans.
JRP: Was that Kit Dearman?
IR: Kit Dearman and who else was there....there was three houses there....you know the cafe was at the top of St. Andrew Street, Reg, and he worked in Murphy's, he lived in one of those houses down there, well he's got all three.
JRP: Yes, he had the photographers.
IR: That's right. I can't remember his name (Ferdi Barrall)
JRP: Was he Polish.......he's still alive of course.
IR: He married a German girl and she was a lovely person and he did do some lovely photographs.
JRP: He actually traded under the name of Ian Graham, didn't he?
IR: That's right, Graham.
JRP: It wasn't his name.
IR: No, well I've always called him Graham....he first worked in Murphy's, you know.
JRP: Oh, in Welwyn Garden City....yes, so you two went to Murphy's together...did you work in the same department or.......
IR: Ooo....no, I was on the line and Con was on inspection and we had to pack up the old Murphy Radio and we went into electronics. I used to say I'll have to go where the aristocrats are now, then.
JRP: Did you stay there after the war?
CC: Ivy retired when she was 60.
JRP: Oh, you stayed at Murphy's all that time?
CC: And it was only through 3 doctors saying she should give up that she did.
IR: I loved my work.
Then talk turned to Jack Jones.
IR: His wife lives in that bungalow in Tower Street and she's got friendly with him (a man whose name she forgets but he lives 'down the Folly' (Alf Heard))....and I'm rather glad because they're so happy together...they're going to Scotland and he wants to see 'All Our Yesterdays' (the scrapbook).
Ivy added that she'd like to take it to the Museum. Jean told them that HOHG had recently had an exhibition at the Museum.
IR: Is that staircase still there?
JRP: Yes.
IR: And you still sign the paper?
JRP: Yes.
Now looking at the scrapbook.
JRP: Daily Mirror, February 16th, 1952....three ha'pence....(much laughter) and then behind the Daily Mirror is Hertford Past and Present, July 1983, 1988 etc.
IR: Town shoe shop to close....that's Colemans.
Ivy did soldering at Murphy's and later she helped her neighbour, Mr. East, to build a model of Liverpool Cathedral. She did all the silver rotars for the aerophanes in Murphy's and "I've got me own little wireless upstairs...show it to you one day."
Then there was some conversation about Wells' shoe shop in Port Vale, beside Bridens'
RP: That shop which Skinner took over was Bridens' and then they took Wells' over so that television shop incorporates both Wells' and Bridens'.
IR: Mrs. Wells, didn't she have a little shop of cottons and all that over Port Hill...,'cos I used to go in there.
RP: Yes.
IR: There's a shoe shop there in Port Vale ....is it a shoe shop, or what is it dear?
JRP: It looks like shoes in the window, yes.
IR: My sister, Phyllis, she's got a wonderful memory, even though she's 92. She said there was a shoe shop there I can't remember that.
More cuttings! Old adverts for Arnold Thomas and for W.F. Ramsey....Fish and Ice!