Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Smith, Mrs. E Lil (Joe) (O1993.6) |
| Interviewee | Mrs. E. Lil (Joe) Smith (ES) |
| Interviewer | Peter Ruffles (PR), Meg Fewkes (MF) |
| Date | 27/08/1993 |
| Transcriber by | Eve Sangster |
Transcript
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no: O1993.6
Interviewee: Mrs. E. Lil (Joe) Smith (ES)
Date: 27th August, 1993
Venue: 34 Port Vale, Hertford
Interviewers: Peter Ruffles (PR), Meg Fewkes (MF)
Transcriber: Eve Sangster
Typed by: Eve Sangster
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s notes
PR: Friday 27th August 1993 … this is Meg Fewkes from the museum
ES: I've written down what I can remember.
PR: Oh smashing
ES: I don't know if that's any good to you.
PR: Oh it will be, yes. True to her word said “ Oh I will go home and write something down” That’s brilliant yes yes.
( there is some banging and faint words while they settle)
ES: ****** that’s all I can remember.
PR: Oh that’s great. Have you been up the town this morning?
ES: No I have been down to WI and er..
MF: Do you belong to WI?
ES: No no I just go down and buy them ….I have written it all down there.
PR: Yes well no we needn’t talk into it I can ask you a question or two can’t I ?
ES: Well I don’t know whether I can answer them…
PR: No no well you….
ES: That photo you took I hope you aren’t going to use that! That’s horrible.
PR: I have got the camera in the car I will take one in a minute with you and Meg because……where we can sit down lets…isn’t this a lovely room.
ES: You can sit in the armchairs, that one you see….
PR: I can’t…
ES: That makes that one a bit higher..
PR: Me things not going anyway I keep playing with it and it won’t…no…..I will tell you what is happening. Big event……the museum has got a little group of people going round just asking people who have lived not necessarily years and years and years but some time in the same place about ordinary, everyday, ordinary memories and Port Vale is a part that we haven’t thought about so we wondered who we knew who had lived in Port Vale a year or two.
All laugh
PR: When did you come here? 1940?
ES: 1941. August 1941. 52 years I've lived in this house.
PR: It's lovely, isn't it? I can see why you don't want to move.
ES: Well, it used to be handy. Because, I've put there a list of all the shops we had. I never used to go down the town. Because Bridens' bakers and the shop used to be in George Street. Well, then, they moved into Port Vale - used to be my husband's uncle shoe shop, Wells.
PR: Wells yes
ES: You see, well then when he died Bridens' took that and they had their shop in the front and next door there used to be the general grocers and Mrs. Romer died, there was 2 or 3 before that but I can’t remember the names I think one was Street but I can’t remember and then Bridens took on the general store and then when Jack Skinner dies they finished it…
PR: Yes
ES: …and then where the Chinese shop is was Earls the butchers, and then next to that this way was Hoares and they used to sell greengrocery and where the television shop is used to be a little drapers shop but it was all sorts you know different people had it.
PR: Yes, yes.
ES: … and then the other side of Earle’s used to be Spriggs the stationers then of course it was the pub
PR: yes The Two Brewers.
ES: No, Bell & Crown…
PR: Bell and Crown the Two Brewers is here….The Bell and Crown…..and there used to be a pet shop?
ES: Yes well that was the Hoares they had a pet shop and a greengrocers
PR: Ah.
ES: See that was where the chinese…..this side
PR: Right.
ES: It’s a do it yourself shop now isn’t it?
PR: That’s right yes, I was more interested in pets when I was a little kid and that’s the one I can remember.
ES: Yes well that was Hoares next to the……Mrs Hoare was Earle’s sister wasn’t she.
PR: Right.
ES: Yes then there was a cottage, well not a cottage a house rather, bit bigger than this I think and then there was this other little shop where the television is now and they used to have some drapery in there. I remember at one time Mrs Cox had it, she used to sell overalls what people work in that sort of thing. Then I think, was it a tailors or something I can’t really remember..
PR: You say you can’t remember………all laugh
ES: Then the other side of the barrier used to be Keith's little general stores.
PR: Yes that’s going in towards the north road, going down towards the station before the railway bridge on the right.
ES: The other end of Russell Street the corner of Russell Street used to be the Greyhound pub a public house, it’s a private house now. The other side, where they've got the new row of houses now, that used to be an orchard at one time and then, I can remember when, well, I'd be about in my teens, I think, they used to have concert parties. I can't think of the name, used to come there for the summer. I think there was about six or seven of them. It was a husband and wife and I can remember one used to (tape fails)
PR: There was. I don’t remember it but there used to be a house along Port Vale this way towards the town with a window in it.
ES: That was Parcel's, the milk shop, I forgot to put that down there I think haven’t I ? Have I put it down, I don’t know. Parcel’s the milk people.
PR: Ah so did they have a dairy nearby or something?
ES: I don't know where the dairy was because that was when I was in the early teens and you don't take all that much notice but I can remember coming there to pay the weekly bill, for the milk.
PR: Right! And would that milk then have been delivered to your ….
ES: It used to come, delivered to our house but where they got the milk from I don't know but that was the shop.
PR: And that would have been in bottles, would it, like ….
ES: No! Churns, you know. I'm going back donkey's years, before bottles were thought of. They used to have the churns and the measure. And, you know, pint measure and they used to pour it in to your jug.
PR: So you had to be out there when the milkman came?
ES: No, he used to knock on your door, you see, and you'd say you wanted a pint or half a pint or 2 pints and you had your jug or jugs and ….
PR: And if you weren't in, you'd had it!
ES: Yes, that's right. Well, of course, they used to come early in the morning. You used to know when they were coming.
PR: So, were you born then in ….
ES: I was born in Riverside, facing the old car park, the shopping centre ….
PR: Yes, as it is now.
ES: Yes, I was born No. 7.
PR: Oh, right, near this end; near The Barge.
ES: 88 years ago come November.
PR: You don't move far from the pubs then, do you?
ES: No, 'cos there was a pub there, weren't there? But I don't drink, that's the difference.
PR: A lot of people would find that very convenient, but, er ….
ES: No, I don't drink. My mother never drank. My father did but my mother, and none of us, did.
PR: So did you live on, did they stay living on The Folly, then?
ES: Yes, when my mother got married and she came to Hertford to live, she went around different places, you know, and she went up Molewood and around there and she didn't like any of them. When she saw that, she liked it. So they went there. And that's how I came to be born there.
PR: Cor! 88! That is ridiculous, isn't it?
ES: 88 years come November I was born.
PR: Were there any others in your family or were you the only one?
ES: There was one sister older. She wasn't born there. And one sister younger and I'm the only one left.
PR: Yes, yes. And did you move from there when you married, then?
ES: I moved from there, here ....
PR: Cor, smashing.
ES: I didn't get married until I was thirty-four.
PR: I told you this would be a good one! All laugh You see I remember…….do you still learn the names of your paper boys because you learnt my name while I was at the paper shop and customers don’t do that, I mean I always remember you started calling me Peter over the counter in such a friendly way .
ES: I can’t remember.
PR: Well that’s where I first met you
ES: Pardon?
PR: That’s where I first met you
ES: Yes I remember you a lot, that’s where I first met you.
PR: Yes
ES: but I can’t remember. Cause I don’t see them you see, I used to give them the Christmas box over the counter.
PR: That’s right yes. But you always caught on to my name fast.
ES: Yes.
PR: I thought this is a nice lady and you used to come into the shop so fast.
ES: I still go in there I paid it this morning when I went down at half past eight.
PR: Always a very fast walker aren’t you?
ES: Yes..of course I have to slow up because I have got arthritis and you know ..angina.
PR: Yes.
ES: But I still think that I can walk quick and when I stop and then I go I start to walk quick, then if you saw me on Saturday…
PR: You get out of breath!
ES: I have to slow up, but I tell you when I go down here and I start off and when I get to the Bell and Crown that was to go up over the bridge.
PR: Yes.
ES: That pulls me back…..I don’t look anything but to me it’s like that….
PR: Yes.
ES: I suppose its cause I am getting old I haven’t got ***********
PR: No but you know the route so you can pace yourself.
ES: Yes I have to I can walk better with me trolley but if I haven’t got me trolley I have to have a stick and if my back is bad I don’t know how to put one foot before the other so it takes me about 20……4 times as long as if I had got me trolley. I depends how I feel.
PR: But who keeps all this spic and span then?
ES: Me I do everything myself. Thank you for saying its spic and span cause I have done nothing this morning I went out too early.
All laugh
ES: Thank you very much.
MF: Lovely to see your brasses shining.
ES: Pardon
MF: the brasses shining.
ES: Well I clean me brasses once a fortnight, I used to do them every week but I find I haven’t got the energy with the arthritis in me arms and shoulders so I just do them once a fortnight so they have not got the shine they used to have.
PR: Well you won’t find many houses in town as smart as this!
ES: Thank you very much. I have a window cleaner outside but um I used to clean the inside and put clean nets up once a month but now I have to wait until I think I dare get up the steps. So when I feel I dare get up the steps I clean me windows and put clean nets up
MF: Do you have any shopping delivered to you?
ES: Pardon
MF: Do you have any shopping delivered to you?
ES: I get everything myself except my friend who pops in and has a coffee she goes down the town every day and she brings me milk back, she will put me a pint of milk on the windowsill. That’s the only thing I have everything else I do myself. I do me washing everything.
PR: Oh dear. Who else in Port Vale has been around a long time we can have a word with?
ES: I don’t know they keep changing.
PR: They do. That’s the trouble, everywhere changes.
ES: ***** my friend she has been there just over 30 years.
PR: Now that’s Mrs,…..Mrs
ES: Prior? And her sister in law Mrs Phillips.
PR: Yes.
ES: The neighbour next door I suppose she has been there about 32 years.
PR: Right. What about the other Mrs Smith?
ES: She moved there when that hotel was up North Road whatssit.
PR: Mayflower
ES: Pardon?
PR: Used to be the Mayflower
ES: That’s right well do you remember some little wooden cottages there?
PR: Along the road.'
ES: Yes well they lived in one of them and then of course when that was all knocked down. It was
McMullen's that owned them they got them a house that’s when she moved there. I don’t know…..
PR: That is a long time ago because the Mayflower has been up Hertingfordbury since then.
The Mayflower business moved up to Hertingfordbury.
ES: Yes just past the corner wasn’t it?
PR: Yes, so she has…
ES: She has been there some time yes I don’t know how long.
PR: No but quite a long time. We just saw Buck Wrangles outside.
ES: Yes he lives down the bottom end of Wellington Street.
PR: Yes.
ES: Because he is what about 94 isn’t he.
PR: Is he yes he was talking about 1911 to us, it was sad we didn’t have the little tape recorder, we should have done, it was in the car but he was talking about the Titanic going down In 1911 wasn’t he and other bits. As soon as you speak to him he is off on…
ES: Yes.
PR: He is amazing isn’t he, yes he did our Christian Aid walk 30 miles not all that many years ago.
ES: Oh yes.
PR: You all went to school in Hertford, you did?
ES: Yes, I went to school at Cowbridge, you know, that's round Dimsdale Street. That's where I went to school. And it was a mixed school and then they built this one opposite - the boys - so that remained the girls school and the boys came down here.
PR: Oh, right. So this only became mixed when that one closed, I suppose. Did they get ….
ES: Yes, well, you see, like, it's only for the toddlers now, up to eleven, then they go to the bigger school But it was for boys only when it was built. But, of course, they built that extra bit on, haven't they, where there used to be a couple of cottages? I think it was Captain somebody, was it? Captain Howe, was it? Yes, he was on the front and there was one at the back, wasn't there? And then the other side of the way, down to McMullen's back way, where they put the lorries, they had the oast house, didn't they, opposite the church - the church is pulled down.
PR: So, we've been saying Port Vale hasn't changed all that much but it has, hasn't it, really?
ES: Yes, and where the car park is over the road, where the iron gates are, that used to be Ashley-Webbs, you know, Vale House, orchard .
PR: Oh, it came right up there, yes.
ES: Yes, that was their orchard. 'Cos, do you remember Bill Ball, that used to live opposite, well, he used to go in there and he used to, you know, sort-of do jobs and he used to stoke-up at the
house.
PR: Oh, he did that as well? He'd got a very loud voice.
ES: He used to drive that horse and cart for Mac's, didn't he?
PR: You could hear him calling …
ES: Yes, from a whole long way.
PR: Yes, Bill Ball. So he worked at Mac's at the brewery as well, did he?
ES: Yes, he did work at Mac's, yes.
PR: And the stabling was over here, was it? The horses …
ES: Yes, well, you know, it's where the entrance is now, they take the lorries down. Course, I think they altered it a bit because I think where the entrance is used to be the oast house because, you
see, they took the kitchens, haven't they, for the school and built extra on there. You see there wasn't all that bit on the end, was there? You see, there was the house and another house, down there. Then there was a drive. Then there was the oast house. Then there was that other cottage that started up the other end of the Vale.
PR: I'd forgotten all that but now you've described it, yes.
ES: So, they used to go down there between the oast house and Captain Howe's house …. They cut that down now. They used to have those big, heavy, iron lorries that come along because they've got lighter ones now, haven't they? 'Cos when they used to go along, 6 o'clock in the morning, your bed used to go like that (gestures) because of the cellar underneath, you see.
PR: So how far would he have gone with his horse then and cart, what would his delivery ….?
ES: Well I think he went round all the villages.
PR: Did he…..yes
ES: Cause I mean they used to in those days…I suppose..I can’t remember properly but I expect they went round Braughing and all round that way.
PR: It wasn’t so long ago really was it was… I mean they did have motorised vehicles at the same time as he was still on his…
ES: Yes well when he finished they packed up didn’t they…...the horses.
PR: Yes…..I have forgotten the timing you know.
ES: I can’t remember the years you know cause he has been gone a few years now hasn’t he……I mean I just can’t remember any more. I think I told you all I can think of.
PR: and in school do you have any horrible memories or nice memories of school days.
ES: No ….Very happy school days I think we used to have concerts and we used to put the concerts on in the Corn Exchange you know in the evenings once a year. I can remember only one and that was The Geisha Girl we put that on. Used t9o be…I think it was somewhere about……I won’t say the time it was 7 to 9 or 8 to 10 but I know it was a bit late for us children whatever it was but we used to love it.
PR: Yes yes, where they big classes, were there many in a class do you think?
ES: Oh now you are asking me aren’t you. I should think about 20, 25 not that many.
PR: Not enormous no no ….and what was the heating there?
ES: There were big combustion stoves.
PR: Oh yes so someone had to stoke up.
ES: Yes I don’t know if they had someone to do it or not because they had a school cleaner a Miss Ramsden she used to live in a house down by the river.
PR: In Dimsdale Street yes yes. Didn’t someone die the same day as her brother there? I am sure the brother and sister died on the same day that might have been her….yes I can remember while I was at Farnhams but it might not have been….it would have been a relation I should think that I am talking about.
ES: I don’t remember that.
PR: Yes and then the town itself.
ES: They have ruined it, they have absolutely ruined the town to what it used to be. If they had left the little shops on the streets as they were and put Gascoyne Way for through traffic I think that would have been ideal but that mess up they have made of Railway Street. The people that keep falling over and breaking limbs there I think it’s disgusting.
PR: Well you watch out, because you have probably worked out where the problems are now/
ES: I walked along one Saturday I was on the pavement, some people were there, so I went to the side and my trolley was like that…..it’s dangerous, and those steps I mean people don’t think about steps when they go along there.
PR: No no there is a step at the far end isn’t there near where the covered market used to be.
ES: That’s very steep there, they have put a notice on it haven’t they on the step.
PR: Oh have they?
ES: Yes because people fell down, stupid idea.
PR: Yes yes some of it…
ES: Because all the have got to do was to write on the road “ no entry”. But for that bit there, waste of money.
MF: Well it’s all experimental and I think the bits that are very wrong will probably be changed.
PR: Yes I expect so but it has caused a big upheavel
ES: Yes.
MF: I know Hertford (sound goes)
ES: I mean now we have only got one butchers. We haven’t got a greengrocers, we haven’t got a small grocers shop. At one time we had, what was it? in Maidenhead Street alone, we had Walker Stores, Westrope, no, not Westrope, Wigginton's; and then it was the Co-op, then it was Home & Colonial and Perks and International. Through Honey Lane there used to be Westrope's; then we had Stallibrass, London Central, Eastman's and the butchers there. And we had Chapman's, the pork butchers, all in Maidenhead Street.
PR: Yes, and Hugman's, pork butcher, on Old Cross.
ES: Yes.
PR: And Mr. Bonser, do you remember Mr. Bonser, the butcher, next to McMullen's seed shop, where the fish and chip shop is now, with a little goatee beard?
ES: Yes yes oh you know everything has changed and nothing for the better not what I see. People say I shouldn’t look back when I say we were better off with all the little shops if they had left things how they were. You shouldn’t look back but I say I can’t help it because I think it was much better .
PR: You had a choice which …
ES: You don’t have today.
PR: No no.
MF: The Castle Gardens have they always been …
ES: Yes they used to have tennis courts in the Castle didn’t they?
PR: Yes.
ES: they used to have bowls the other side didn’t they.
PR: Yes so even that’s changed
ES: and they used to have that pond didn’t they at the side, you know that big pond coming up the front. There are steps up round there aren’t there then the ********* and you go straight up here.
PR: Yes.
ES: Well as you go straight up there, you know where the Ashley-Webb Memorial Hall is well just before you get there, there’s a big piece isn’t there, well that used to be a big pond.
PR: Yes..Oh…
ES: and there used to be a seat at this end.
PR: I didn’t know that, it was a sort of rock garden yes, yes.
ES: ********* and they started to take that mound down didn’t they, because that’s historic isn’t it and they had to stop taking that down.
PR: Yes they took the trees off it, yes so that was….well that’s smashing we have got ..I will take off the top sheets of your…
ES: yes that’s me shopping list…….and I just stuck them there.
PR: Yes thanks that’s given us a picture and if they want, you know they sometimes say well what about anything else anyone can remember we will ask perhaps Mrs Prior or perhaps the other Mrs Smith about the Mayflower or come back to you.
ES: Well I don’t think I can remember anything else!
PR: You are a good talker.
ES: Not when I am with strangers. I am done when I am with strangers, I can’t talk with strangers.
PR: You are very very clear you see it’s so easy to listen to you where some people you have an awful job catching on and er .
MF: Did you have holidays? Did you go on holiday?
ES: ********* used to go to me brother-in-law’s and me sister they went all over the place (another tape problem) used to go for two weeks at Christmas they used to come and fetch me and bring me back and me sister died and I still went up. Last November he said “what day are you coming up for Christmas?” and going back and I said “I don’t feel well enough to come” I don’t feel I can take that journey any more so I don’t think I will be going away anymore because sitting in the back of the car with that strap round here. I was like this all the time you know, I can’t move and then me knees get stiff and I can’t stretch them out and I can’t move. No I would rather be at home so I am not going away any more.
PR: What happened to children when you were younger? Did you just have trips, outings or something? You wouldn't have gone away?
ES: Never had a lot really. We used to have the Sunday School outing. We used to go in a cart, farm cart or something - was it McMullen's? I don't know. We went in a cart and they used to take us to a farm, you know, or up to Sir Edward Pearson's, up Brickendonbury. That's all we did when we were children apart from when I went to me grandmother's at Benington, you know, for holidays and that. But then we used to go on a horse and cart and it was a …. They used to bring them in the town for shopping and there was this long cart and it had like a bit sticking up in the middle and a seat either side, down the length. And we used to sit on there and they took us over to
Benington and brought us back. A horse and cart.
PR: You are going to earn your place in the museum!
ES: Don’t you put my face up in anything I just told you but I don’t want nothing else.
PR: Right.
ES: I don’t want no recognition or anything.
PR: No.
ES: Because I am not that type of person I am too private.
PR: We will ..yes yes….what they would like to do is put a picture in the actual files because someone will listen to the tape , if anything has come out because the machine is a bit funny, we can remember otherwise and write down the little bits, especially the bits like Benington and the shops, and then there is a form that says your…..
ES: Put that down there.
PR: Don’t you want that?
ES: No I don’t want that …
PR: Well it will only be in the actual museum not on exhibition.
ES: It’s all filed away you know so students in years to come…
PR: Well that’s all right the…
ES: Well that’s all right then.
PR: but people doing research now come to ask about earlier things and we can say well we have got actual Hertford people talking and they can put on some headphones and they will hear what I am saying at the moment and what you have said and to have a picture nearby with some details of the person that lived in Port Vale, you know this is, we are talking about the year 2050 or something you know when we are not around telling the tale and they will say oh isn’t that marvellous a good job somebody wrote it down or…
ES: Well I am glad if I have been of any use but I didn’t think it was much really.
PR: It is because everybody says you know there is nothing special but in the end the whole lot is forgotten and all you have got is a few faded pictures and someone says well where was that taken from or where was that so they will say well lets listen to that …or well she mentioned a shop here or a shop there it all ( tape problem again) so I am going to turn the tape over in a minute. I don’t if we have got anything at all because this machine is mucking about. I keep pressing the buttons but we can remember can’t we. What I would like to do if possible is….would you mind ********
MF: I don’t think you will get…
End of Side A
Beg of Side B
Long pause and recorder starts with a “bang”
PR: No because this is the first time you have been on a visit.
MF: Yes
PR: *****to say ***
ES: ******** there
PR: yes (laugh) I will go and get the camera.
ES: Do you like it
MF: Its changed, we have been here for well 18 years and in the time we have been here….
(Recorder plays up again)
ES: …. we used to have a man come round, when I was a child, it was in the morning with rolls in the morning.
MF: How lovely.
ES: and we used to have hot rolls for breakfast and then of a Sunday, he used to come round selling muffins on his head.
PR: What, round the Folly?
ES: Yes, all round the town. He lived up Port Hill. Name of Taylor.
PR: Oh, yes, near the Reindeer.
ES: Then some Sundays they used to have one of those coster barrows come along selling winkles and cockles and things on a Sunday morning. They often used to stand outside the pub, there.
PR: Did your husband work for Mac's?
ES: No, worked up Horns Mill. He used to do the different colour dyeing of skins, leather dressing. He was born at the Greyhound pub. His grandmother kept the Greyhound pub and he was born there.
PR: I'd assumed, you know, since you're on this, you know, bit next door to Mac's pub, that he'd worked for Mac's.
ES: No! (Tape falters.) No, 'cos I mean I'm not interested in pubs. But his grandmother kept it and they used to have a sort-of sweet shop in the front, so he's told me, and his grandfather used to do shoemaking and repairs at the back. And the son had where I told you Briden's was. And he was born there.
(The tape falters)
ES: I think it was and then they moved to Fanshawe Street I think.
(The tape falters)
PR: Yes yes the glovers where Glovers walk no Glovers…
ES: They call it The Tannerys now [Tanners Crescent?]
PR: Yes yes
ES: They had the tannery at the bottom you know where Bullocks Lane is.
MF: Yes yes
ES: Well it was opposite there the big mill wasn’t it.
PR: Yes yes big chimney and…
ES: They used to the chamois leathers and er different coloured leathers and they had a glove factory there as well where they made the gloves
PR: Yes yes.
ES: And all that and they used to have what they called the pit yard where they took the hair was taken off the skins.
PR: Ah.
ES: and they used to bleach the skins out in the field.
PR: Yes you could see that from the train looking across like white handkerchiefs hanging out.
ES: .... he used to do the dyeing of the different colours and I can remember him coming home one day with a little teeny square, about like that, (gestures), and he said, " A piece of Queen Mary's dress material." They'd sent a piece to match the colour in a skin, a pair of shoes …..........laughs
MF: How wonderful.
ES: I haven’t got it now I don’t know what happened to it.
PR: No but you remember it then….yes.
ES: Yes only a little teeny square it was about (gestures again) that big a square he cut it off……
MF: Very skilled the dying ..
ES: Yes,
PR: Did you meet him just casually in Hertford?
ES: Yes, you know, there used to be a gang of girls go around and a gang of boys and we used to stop and talk and we went together. Then I said, "Oh, I don't want to get married." So packed up, was single again, you know, went free. Then we got together again and I did the same thing again and I went away for a couple of years. When I came back we met up again ****** married when I was 20 but I didn't. So I didn't get married until I was 34. I might have had children if I'd married younger but, there you are. It’s just the way it goes, isn't it?
PR: Well and usually it’s the right way for everybody isn’t it. For that person it’s the right way for them.
ES: Yes so er
PR: well…
ES: That was life that was my life I have had a happy life it’s just unfortunate I never had any children.
PR: Well.
ES: sometimes I think the way they are going on now I am just as well off
PR: Yes.
ES: ********* I have got a brother in law in Lincoln, I have got one niece at Stortford and one niece in Surrey that’s all I have got now.
PR: Yes .
ES: Because when I had this fall.
(The tape falters)
PR: In the garden wasn’t it?
ES: They sent for my niece and they took me over to Stortford on the ****
PR: You tripped up in the garden didn’t you?
ES: Yes well you see when they did the alterations they broke the concrete up but (The tape falter sound goes very faint) I done it but it wasn’t satisfactory so of course it has come out again so of course I didn’t know what to do if I made it too wet or what I don’t know maybe I didn’t make it wet enough but I tried but it’s still all broken so I caught my head on the corner of that wall that my husband put to keep the dirt back and it’s a sharp edge I caught it there, snapped my glasses clean in half there ** into me nose . So I made a good job of it the doctor said (laughs)
PR: Yes.
MF: If you had one of these alarms could you have called for help?
ES: Well I struggled and got up but that made this arm more painful to get up because I couldn’t get on me knees, I had to force myself onto me knees and I got up to go next door to ask Ena with blood all dripping all down me and she called the landlady from upstairs and she called the ambulance.
MF: My mother was born in 19……
(The tape falters and goes too quiet )
MF: ….she was nearly 80 then.
ES: Yes well ********* my neighbour she followed me in her car and she bought me home.
(The tape falters)
ES: ….well I have been on the same ones because MR Hall he was surgeon you know……opposite where the other doctors used to be…..1,2,3,4 didn’t there
PR: Yes yes …..
ES: I was on with him and I had can’t think of his name Doctor ** he was a coloured doctor him and his father and mother were all three doctors and they took over and made some major changes but I still kept to them and now they have moved up St Andrews Street you see and I am still with them.
PR: Yes yes so…
ES: I am with Dr Mobley now.
PR: So the same practice all your life….
ES: Yes.
PR: Were you born at home then?
ES: Pardon?
PR: Were you born at home?
ES: Yes they didn’t take you to hospital then did they?
PR: No no so Doctor Hall he was the same.
ES: Yes yes and Nurse Miles she was the midwife; ( all laugh)
PR: Now let’s just do this first its says ( Peter reads out the questions on an Oral History Clearance Form.) “ can we use your contribution for” I can do it…….may we use your contribution for well public reference..unless we go through to the table…
ES: Well because its old it wants renewing but I can’t afford it.
PR: For educational use, well that’s all right, for students ….
ES: I don’t want any advertising.
PR: No.
ES: *********** what I tell you people might say she’s getting a bit big headed……..
PR: Right………..Pub……I am not sure what public reference means
MF: I think it means if someone was to …
PR: Yes that’s all we need do and I have got to ask …..now what is it today the …
ES: Lilian Amelia. That's not for publication, is it?
MF: What a pretty name
ES: Whew, what a mouthful.
PR: But you usually use the 'Lil'.
ES: Well, a few people call me Lil but the majority of people call me Joe.
PR: Where's the Joe come from?
ES: Well, you see, they'd got me elder sister and me father wanted a boy so Nurse Miles said, "Well, we'll call her Tuppenny Joe!” And they called me Tuppenny Joe for a long time then they dropped the Tuppenny and called me Joe. Don't you put that down there!
PR: Well, it's a good story, Tuppenny Joe.
ES: You see so then when I started to work., I thought I don’t want to be called by my nickname and I don’t like Emily so I said my name was Lilian so they started to call me Lil but then of course a lot of people still knew me as Joe.
PR: Yes.
ES: So a few call me Lil but then I got a bit big headed and said I didn’t ….Buck Wrangles he always calls me Lil.
PR: Right.
ES: See but majority of people call me Joe but that’s how that come about.
(PR: continues to fill-in the Clearance Form.)
PR: 34 Port Vale..thanks very much for letting us record you. I said 10 minutes!
ES: Well as long as it has been of use.
PR: Well it will be yes it’s interesting for us and useful for others. Now date of birth.
ES: 27-11-05 ………1905 I should say shouldn’t I
PR: They won’t belive that!
ES: Eh?
PR: They won’t believe that.
ES: Well it’s true…
PR: When they hear your voice. You don’t sound like and elderly lady …..laughs.
MF: Good strong voice.
More tape trouble
PR: I think……Riverside…place of birth is Riverside Hertford.
ES: Yes ******* that’s it that’s all it.
PR: Occupation?
ES: Well. I worked in the binding room of Simpson Shand and I also worked at the beginning of the war in the Co-op grocers shop. Well then the government sent me back to Simpson Pimm's, you know, because they were on government work. I was only at the Co-op grocers for a couple of years.
PR: Right…later so you were part of the…..you know in touch with the town as it were….husband….Oh.
ES: Was a cook.
More tape trouble
PR: You don’t charge do you? Turned out to be a long one.
ES: Well as long as it is some use and as long as I am not paraded you know
PR: No we will…..
ES: Kept private because I am one of them people that doesn’t like to make a lot of show. I like to be in the background.
PR: I think to be honest the time when it I going to be most useful is probably 40 or 50 years hence.
ES: I won’t be around…
PR: Neither will we! (all laugh) Now…
ES: Can you get by with me trolley?
PR: Yes.
ES: ….pinch the top out and let it bush out or what to do with it……I have no idea I have never grown one before have you? Passion Flower
MF: I think they let it grow down a bit first don’t they before …
PR: Well it looks happy enough doesn’t it.
ES: Yes well I don’t know whether to nip the top out, will it bush out or will I kill it?
PR: I should let it do its own thing for a bit longer yes.
ES: That’s what I wondered.
MF: Let it put its feet down first before you start that’s the usual advice isn’t it.
ES and PR: Yes, yes.
ES: It was a little thing like that when she bought it back, what, end of July. Yes because I did this in July and she was on holiday. That’s right and it was a little thing like that in a pot. Well it hadn’t got any feelers on and that’s the first feelers so you can tell.
MF: ********
ES: July and its grown like that.
PR: Yes.
MF: You may even get a flower on it do you think? It just has to grow doesn’t it.
In distinct conversation
ES: It’s not a bad little cottage is it?
PR: Smashing.
MF: Do you want me to lock the door.
ES: No I don’t lock it, my friend when she comes round Mrs Prior she knocks the door, “you should always lock it you never know whose coming in, you never know….” But the only thing I do is after dinner when I swing that round and have the fire on then I sit and sometimes I shut my eyes and I think I might go off to sleep then I lock it.
PR: Then you lock it yes
MF: **********
PR: yes you should.
MF: ****** people don’t have to ring the bell or knock the knocker because the dog barks ******
ES: My brother in law bought him down from Lincoln and I call him a “Lincolnshire bitza” cause he is a patch on one wing and the other wing is plain.
PR: Yes.
ES: Just got that little bit and he has got no spots all my other ones have had spots you know round here but he’s got none.
PR: No.
ES: Snowy/..come on ….(makes noises to the budgie) …..come on. No.
PR: Too many interesting people/
ES: Not coming, no, Snowy….. are you a petty boy, you a petty boy.
PR and MF in the background
ES: You a petty boy, show me you’re a petty boy……...he usually comes and looks in here.
MF: ********* after my mother died my father ********
ES: see he has just got a little bit of blue round here.
MF: yes petty
ES: He has got that lovely blue patch ********* patch on his back.
PR: yes
ES: I wonder you know, because he used to come on my finger ever so easily. But the little boy used to come in from next door when he was staying there and I wonder if he has frightened him?
PR: Yes.
ES: Because for the last couple or three years he has stopped coming on my finger ********** over there and I put it this side so he has been frightened.
PR: Yes.
ES: They never forget.
MF: No.
ES: They never forget…you are not going to say pretty boy then…..*********
MF: I heard a lovely story locally about a lady that lived in Letty Green her budgie flew away and she thought how very sad and quite a few weeks later the phone rang and a complete stranger to her asked have you lost a budgie and she said yes but that was weeks ago. So she said well a budgie has just flown into my lounge and said I am Bobby Beer ** 79 so the lady rung ** 79 and it was Stella Beer and she got her budgie back.
PR: Good gracious.
MF: she had taught her her phone number …
ES: My other one used to talk a lot but this one I can’t get it to talk much.
PR: Yes.
ES: You see he will say pretty boy sometimes you know and something like that but ******I can’t get it to talk. Don’t look at my doorway my landlord put that door on but they have not finished it.
PR: Oh.
ES: look at that edge he has left that edge raw ….see
PR: Yes.
ES: how he has left it here.
PR: Yes
ES: and all that, I have told them about it and she said he will have to come and do that. Cause he has painted the front if he is going to paint the back I don’t know.
PR: No.
MF: they are probably waiting for the weather to change…
ES: Well I think he is one of them..well he comes Sunday, Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning that’s when he does it
PR: Yes, yes, between times.
ES: Well I mean the door hinges are white but this door was cream. When he put those numbers on 34 the screws come through there and I told him I kept catching my fingers on it.
MF: Yes.
ES: so he got the fella to take the edges off and then he painted it that white.
PR: Yes.
ES: I said well I am not going to paint it till they have done that.
PR: Is it a local landlord?
ES: I can’t clean that because that was like that when he bought it off another door, cause it wasn’t a new door when he bought it over and er I tried and tried but I can’t get no polish on there so it’s no good polishing that.
PR: ************ still it looks good.
ES: Yes well******I would rather have it as a you know frosted glass like my other one was
PR: yes.
ES: My husband bought the other door and that was frosted glass. He said but this is a good door that’s why I put that net up because I don’t want people looking straight the way in.
PR: No no.
ES: I mean I have got nothing, I haven’t got much in here admitted but .nothing posh but…
PR: No but…
ES: You want a bit of privacy don’t you?
MF: Of course you do.
PR: Yes yes……right thank you.
ES: as long as I have been of some use?
PR: Definitely
ES: and it is not going to be publicised with my name …….
PR: No no don’t rush out to buy your Mercury just in case cause it won’t be in there
ES: That’s ok.
MF: I will probably see you in Hertford or the W I market……
ES: ****I am not so good on me feet so I might pass you by, don’t think I am being rude, you see because I keep stumbling and falling about so I mean I am always looking at me feet because the pavements are so uneven, I mean along here they are like that they are disgusting so I am always looking where I am putting me feet and not looking where I am going so if I pass you by….
MF: I will tap you on the shoulder….lovely to have met you, by bye.
PR: bye bye…..cheers.