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Transcript Title	Forrester, Lily (O1994.31)
Interviewee	Lily Forrester (Lilian Mary maiden name Brace) (LF)
Interviewer	Betty Frith (BF)
Date	26/10/1993
Transcriber by	Susan Hitch from notes by Eve Sangster

Transcript

Hertford Oral History Group

Recording no O1994.31

Interviewee: Lily Forrester (Lilian Mary maiden name Brace) (LF)

Date: 26th October 1993

Venue: Connaught Road, Cheshunt

Interviewer: Betty Firth (BF)

Transcriber: Susan Hitch from notes by Eve Sangster

************** unclear recording

[discussion] untranscribed material

italics editor’s notes

BF: This is Betty Frith at the home of Mrs. Lily Forrester of Connaught Road, Cheshunt on Tuesday, October the 26th 1993. Now, what would you like me to call you, Lily or Mrs Forester?

LF: Oh, call me Lily…

BF: Now, Lily, what was your date of birth?

LF: 22nd November 1900.

BF: And where do you think you were born?

LF: I have a feeling I might have been born on the gaol buildings, but I wouldn’t like to say it was true, but I think so.

Transcribers note: When she was 4 months old the family were living in Elm Street which was known as “The Gaol” so she is probably correct.

BF: And what was your surname before you were married?

LF: Brace –B R A C E

BF: And now, what brothers and sisters did you have?

LF: I had two brothers and a sister.

BF: And what did your father do, as a job?

LF: Well, he was a bus driver, a horse bus driver you see, and he used to meet the trains, and anybody going on holiday who could afford to have him, he used to take their luggage to the station, and meet them when they came back. And also, er, he used to meet the trains at the North Station and the East Station, then help them out, and it was quite good – this was after they’d been staying at a hotel…

BF: Did he?

LF: Yes, yes.

BF: And what about your mother, did she…?

LF: My mother was a Londoner, and I didn’t know – I did know two of my uncles, but my grandfather had worked at Tower Bridge. They were watermen you know, and I think erm… my mother only had one sister. I don’t know much about my mother’s family because you see she lost her mother - who knows what happened. But she was born at Rotherhithe, her name was Squires. But we did see my uncles, they used to come and see us you know. But they didn’t have as much to do with them as my father’s people, because my father they had always lived in Hertford, born and bred in Hertford you see, I mean all my nephews and nieces, so that I think most people knew us you know…

BF: Did she have an occupation, besides being your mother? Did she do a job?

LF: Well I think she was in service, I don’t know…

BF: What about after she married your father?

LF: Well, sometimes she used to take lodgers in. When in the militia you know, when the reserves came up…and when they came up to do their ….. the top bedroom used to be devoted to four soldiers and every now and again the Commanding Officer would come and inspect the, you know, the billet, to see that everything was all clean and nice. She made some wonderful friends, my mother, through the parents of these young men. And it was lovely to see them go out on parade on Sunday morning, because they used to wear the busby, red jackets, and they used to march from the barracks up London Road, and they used to go to church and we would see them come back. So, I mean, Mother, all the jobs she used to do, I mean, she worked very hard.

BF: That’s right, yes

LF: She really did.

BF: Do you remember what school you went to?

LF: All Saints Girls’ School – I had a lovely time there, I enjoyed school. But erm, there was a scholarship or examination to go through if you wanted to leave school before you were fourteen, but I think they thought at home it was about time I did something you know to earn a bit of money so I went in for the scholarship, and I was the only one that passed! But they didn’t give you a paper or anything like that. But at school it was very nice. We used to get the school inspector and if you didn’t attend he used to come round and see your parents and asked why you know. Then we used to have the scripture inspector and he used to test you and erm… about your Scripture and if he thought you were good you got a certificate. I got one but I don’t know what happened - I suppose it got put up at home, you know. Well, I think school was a happy time, although at times I xxxxx , you know. But I was happy at school

BF: Did you just go to one school?

LF: I only went to that one school.

BF: Yes, you went when you were five and left when you were fourteen

LF: Yes, only the one school. Well I was looking out for a job, you know. cleaning knives and forks and peeling potatoes and all that. I used to get a shilling a week for it. But that shilling was precious, you know. I used to tell mother I would get a job and I could keep my own home, I was happy enough, I didn’t mind what I did because my mother always appreciated what you did, you know. She was really very good, yes.

BF: And what did you do when you left school? What job did you do when you left school?

LF: I went to work at Mr. Hoare’s, the dentist. (50 St Andrew Street) That was… I don’t know what I was doing there, I often used to iron his shirts. When I went there they were expecting their first baby. And I used to let the patients in to have their teeth done, and then Mrs Hoare had the baby, and she went and had a dress made in green linen, and I used to wear a Panama hat, and take the baby out, Peter. And I remember, at that time, of course, the soldiers from the convalescent – what was the name of the place where they had to stay?* – and my Aunt Daisy worked there, and she overheard this chap discussing somebody, and she said “Don’t you say any more” she said “You’re talking about my niece!” But they were so nice, but I left there because I heard of something that would pay a bit more money and there – then I carried on for a while and then I thought I ‘d better spread my wings so I went away for a job, but I didn’t like it very much and I came home again. But I got a year or two older, and I went, because of the war, I went to a Greek family – they were very wealthy, in London, and they bought, took a house for the duration of the war, because they had some children, and I used to go - I went as a nurse to the little ones and we had some wonderful times. Every morning we used to get up at 5 o’clock and go over the beach, because it’s cobbles and muck and dirt, we used to go over, down to the sea, bathe and dress and….

Transcriber’s Note: The soldier’s convalescent home was Wallfields in WW1

BF: Whereabouts was that? Do you remember where that was, where the house was?

LF: Well, it was down Caister Road at Hastings

BF: Oh, yes

LF: And the erm…Canadians were down there. And I was there when the armistice was declared. And my friend, she had come down to a friend of the people I worked for and she met a Scotch Canadian who was convalescing, at Goodnestone? and he was in hospital. And she married him, and I was a bridesmaid . But she went out, but she was xxxxxxx and she went. And I used to get letters telling me her…you know, because this young man’s mother didn’t think she was quite good enough for her son. However she had a couple of children, and she told me she used to go out to work and she tried desperately hard to save the money to come home. But her husband xxxxx so that she had to spend this money. But we kept in touch all through those years, until five years ago. And I had another school friend, Elizabeth Kingsley and all the time through those years, I kept in touch with the other one, she lived at Dover. She died about seven years ago. So they were my two friends, you know, living within two or three minutes. They were real friends. You could pick up each other – then I came back to London

(Both speaking together)

BF: Was that after the 1914-18 war?

LF: the 1914 war, yes. I was thinking of the time we went, my friends and I, when we were down there. We wanted to go and see “Seven Days Leave” in Hastings at the theatre, and it was our day off, and we walked with two young soldiers. And the bus – no, it wasn’t a – the tram used to run from there to Hastings we went and saw the play, when we came out the last bus – the last bus or the last train had gone. And we walked all the way to Hastings from Bexhill, and it was a grassy track. And of course we wondered what the people would say, that we worked for. But we crept upstairs, and we didn’t hear any more about it! I always remember that. I had some very happy times there. Then I came back, and I got other jobs, then I think I was altogether about twenty years in London, different jobs, you know, doing this and that. I wanted to be independent. I missed my home you know, but I was quite happy, and that’s where I met my husband

BF: Oh did you?

LF: He had been in the army in the garrison…

BF: How old were you when you got married?

LF: I was coming up to twenty-five

BF: Oh yes?

LF: Yes, he was a bit older than me. But he was a good father. He’d do anything for the girls. He was a Scot, and of course – when I met him he’d just finished wearing the kilt because there was a war on…

BF: Did you meet him in London?

LF: Yes, yes. I have no regrets with my life because on the whole I think I’ve been very lucky. So we got married you see and I went back to live in Bristol

BF: Oh, you went to Bristol

LF: I had always lived away from home, because you see xxxxxxx and I went to live in Bristol, and then I went to live in Cardiff for a year because of my husbands’ work, came back to London, and then I went back home to the old house in Talbot Street for a year, and my husband went to work in London. He was a chef. And we had to find somewhere to live, and so we found a flat. And then when my husband must leave, he got a better job at Maidstone. And we got a flat, but my husband said we must get somewhere to live, and I think we’ve got a better chance in Maidstone will you go? And I said well I will go wherever you go, and we got a house at Maidstone, it was a lovely house, very, very nice, and well, I suppose. I was eighteen years in Maidstone, and I’ve been, I suppose, 35 or 40 years in Chatham. I made some nice friends, and been happy. Being the second world war I went back to work again, and I worked for the KCC (Kent County Council?). I was there 21 years, you know, part-time and full time – I was very happy. I still see one friend that I worked with there now, she always writes at Christmas time, and I do to her. Because we were always helping each other, you know, if something queer turned up. And in spite of my deafness she was very very helpful in lots of ways, and when I look back now there, I don’t think I couldn’t have asked for more…

BF: What about when you got married? When did you get married?

LF: I got married at home in Hertford.

BF: Oh, you got married at home… which church?

LF: Oh yes, I was married in erm from Talbot Street.

BF: Yes

LF: My mother was married at All Saints’ ... My youngest brother was married……..my oldest brother he married a Welsh girl, so he came along in…at Pontypridd. And I know he went to the wedding. Then we were there that night and then travelled up to the Blue Boy to my mother you see yes all married in Hertford. And I always remember my wedding day. I thought it was a funny idea but friends would throw rice at you. Do you remember that? How they used to… well the girls next door, as I got to my front door, I was met with a barrage of rice and it could sting. But it was very nice. We had a nice wedding reception, although my father was in hospital, he’d had his operation, and I went to see him on the Good Friday night, and I said “I think you ought to see me, Dad” and he said “No, I don’t want to spoil your day” I said “Don’t be daft, I want to see you.” So the next day, after I’d been married and we had had the reception, my Aunt and Uncle came from London to my wedding, said “Yes, go and see your Dad.” So we hired a taxi and my husband and I, we went to the Hertford County Hospital, and I took my bouquet, and when I went up to his bed he said “I knew you’d come”. Well I thought that was lovely, you know. And then I travelled all the way to Bristol that night.

BF: Where did you have the wedding reception?

LF: We had it at home, it wasn’t a big ……….. I loved the wedding cake an old friend he was a baker, lived up railway Street, do you remember Sonny Camp? He had a limp, and he made a two tier wedding cake, the best I have ever tasted, I always remember him coming and bringing it home in a lady’s laundry basket. It was lovely… My father, you see, he had, with himself, there was five brothers and three girls. They had various places in Hertford, so I don’t know, really…

BF: When did your mother and father take the pub?

LF: Well I can’t remember about the Blue Boy, but I know it was theirs, and I know my mother kept it on for eight years, but I can’t remember – but they’d been in there some time….

BF: After you were married, did they…?

Transcriber’s note: Her father became licensee between 1926 and 1929. He died in 1935 and her widowed mother left as licensee in 1939.

LF: Oh, yes, yes. I mean, last April I’ve been married for 68 years, it’s a long time. But they liked the pub, my father had a big xxxxx with it, but my mother liked life. She did like life she had eight years with it, and I think she – you know. And they changed their lives. She went out to Hunsdon and went to live in a cottage, she used to come every year to stay with me for three weeks and the girls loved her. Yes she was at our wedding as you know, and danced just the same as everybody else. I think on the whole, you couldn’t ask for more. I know we didn’t have much, but it was always clean and tidy. They used to take us out on Sunday evenings for a walk through the fields.

BF: Where did you go?

LF: “Double gates” used to go to Hertingfordbury and up round there and used to stop at a pub. The last uncle of my mothers used to come with us, they used to come up on the train, and they would walk, you see, with us, and call in at this pub and my father used put us on a seat outside the pub, we used to have ginger beer, you remember those ginger beer bottles where you used to press the marble ….

BF: Oh yes

LF: and used to bribe us with biscuits, they were lovely biscuits, I don’t think they cost very much but they were nice. So my sister and I shared and the boys shared theirs you see. Then home to bed that was it till next morning. Christmas time was wonderful time, my father always bought a Christmas tree mother used to decorate it right to the top. We used to sit round the table in the evenings making paper chains had a wonderful time. My father put the paper chains up. I had a cousin who had lost her mother so she and her father used to come and stay with us for Christmas. Oh it was lovely she used to be in bed with us girls. We opened our stockings in the morning ‘cause we were never asked what we wanted. We had to trust to luck what we got, first of all we there would be like a parcel at the top, then usually what you had to open last was in the toe of the stocking there would be orange and lemon sweets and then the present. I remember one Christmas card firms used to advertise quite a lot and they said, if you sent for cards for Christmas and sell so many you would receive a gift. I said to my mother ********so I wrote for these cards, they were decent cards, they were quite cheap, cause cards were cheap, I sold all these cards, sent the money off, it was coming up to Christmastime every day when I got home from school, “has it come yet Mum” “ No”, “has it come yet Mum” “ No”, so this Christmas morning I don’t know how Mum hid it and got it in the stocking but she did, when it came she kept it. I don’t know if you remember, we used to have a fur round here and a muff round here to keep your hand warm, oh wasn’t I thrilled and I put it on that morning. We always had plenty to eat.

BF: What did you have at Christmas did you have a turkey or a chicken or… what did you have to eat at Christmas a turkey, what meat did you have?

(some confusion as Lily is obviously rather deaf)

LF: What presents?

BF: No what meat did you have for Christmas dinner?

LF: What did we have for Christmas dinner?

BF: Yes

LF: Well we used to keep chickens so my father always used to get a couple of chickens and mother would cook those. We always had to sit round the table before Christmas and ston the raisins for Christmas puddings and then on Christmas day when mother dished the Christmas pudding up they used to put 5 old plum pudding dolls, do you remember those little tiny dolls, they came from a toy shop, for children, he heard me exclaim I said to my son in law “ Oh those are plum pudding dolls” he said “ did you say plum pudding dolls?” I said “yes” he said ”I have been trying to find out what they are called” when I was a girl I said there was about 4 of them in the Christmas pudding, so I said when you mixed the Christmas pudding up in the first place they always put in thruppeny bits, you know, *********** anyway we used to have a lovely dinner, we had carrots and sprouts and every vegetable you can think of and mince pies, yes, it was lovely.

Transcriber’s note: It is possible her son in law had a toy shop, also it is not clear if the dolls were as well as or instead of the thruppeny bits

BF: Do you remember the cattle market when that used to be in For Street?

LF: Pardon?

BF: Do you remember the cattle market?

LF: Yes I remember all of it I used to say to my brother those poor animals, of course up the alley on the way to school there was a part where you could see the sheep*********** I remember seeing the drovers coming along saying “Come on my son” oh I remember that. The sheep they used to run all over the place. I remember Brewsters, do you remember Brewsters? And I remember……..do you remember Roses the bookshop - is it still there?

Transcriber’s Note: This was Rookes Alley where you could see the market behind the Ram public house in Fore Street.

BF: No its not there now

LF: I remember our present Queen used to come there for her books with her sister ‘cause he sold some beautiful books. They used to come there.

BF: That used to be on Bull Plain didn’t it on the corner?

LF: Yes that’s right. There was a hairdressers for men, Mr Ellis.

BF: Oh yes

LF: He was on Bull Plain a haircut was tuppence, that’s it, my brother had got to have his hair cut, this is my eldest brother, and Mr Ellis said sit up on the chair, so my bother said please Mr Ellis make me look like my daddy. So Mr Ellis said you’ll look miles better, and the Argentine Butchers used to be, do you remember? and Mrs Dewberry she used to keep, with her husband she used to keep the little sweet shop you know, up some steps, and she had all the sweets displayed in boxes but she always had glass over them. So when we children used to go over to the Conservative Club to tea parties for the children, my father was a Conservative, Mr and Mrs Dewberry did all the refreshments and when we went home we were given a bag of sweets and an orange. I always remember them because they had twin sons and they went to school with me you see. There was another one was it Westropes?

Transcriber’s Note: This was the Honey Lane area of Hertford

BF: Possibly yes

LF: There was Donoghues, Coppins, and the market, the covered in market, that used to be lovely and sometimes if you went round the back after 4 on a Saturday the fish man might not have sold all his kippers and he would sell you four pairs for sixpence. A treat on a Saturday afternoon was to go to the cinema that used to be next door to the Bon Marche, near to Coppins,

BF: Bon Marche I remember seeing that yes

LF: Cause they were silent films in those days, I used to like Pearl White and Max Sennet oh there was a noisy crowd, cause they were only short, Orange peel and all that, oh it was terrible, towards the end the talkies came. They used to have a “Star Turn” and I remember there was a mother and daughter who used to stand outside on the corner she was dressed as a Dutch girl and did clog dancing and she used to do it. I used to feel sorry for her cause I know her mother kept on at her, you know. And a man used to come and play the piano. I always remember when there was a silent film.

BF: **********

LF: You went down on Hartham

BF: Oh you went to Hartham

LF: Oh yes mostly in the school holidays in the summer we went down there, we would take our fishing rods and you know the river Lee you go over the bridge we would walk down the side and went over another bridge and there was another river running down and we used to sit down there and take a bottle of water and something to eat.

Transcriber’s Note: Possibly Paper Mill ditch. Tape Ends abruptly