Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Watkins, Ivan (O 1997.4) |
| Interviewee | Ivan Watkins |
| Interviewer | Peter Ruffles (PR) and Jean Riddell (Purkis) (JP) |
| Date | 28/05/1997 |
| Transcriber by | Jean Purkis |
Transcript
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no: O 1997 .4
Interviewee: Ivan Watkins
Date: 28th (not 27th as stated on tape) May, l997
Venue: Ivan Watkins, Gents' Hairdressers, Parliament Square
Interviewers: Peter Ruffles (PR) and Jean Riddell (Purkis) (JP)
Transcriber: Jean Purkis
PR: This is Peter Ruffles speaking from Ivan the barber's, didn't say the demon barber, because that wouldn't be good for trade. Wednesday 27th (28th) May l997 and Jean Riddell has been allowed into this bastion of masculinity with her recorder to ask Ivan one or two basic questions about his business and his time in Hertford and perhaps one or two things about characters, before we come again to do a more involved tqlk if Ivan will let us. And Ivan at the moment is cutting another customer's hair - who is that customer at the moment?
A. Arthur Sadler from Stevenage.
PR: Well! Do you get many customers from Stevenage, Ivan?
IW: Um, I've got one other comes from Stevenage, but quite a few other places they come from.
PR: How long have you actually been working...you've been cutting my hair for 40 years I reckon.
IW: I've been working in the shop for 4l years.
PR: And it was....when you came it wasn't your father's shop at that moment was it?
IW: No, I worked for a 'guvnor' then my father started the shop off in l924. Then it was taken by another chap and then my late 'guvnor' who packed up l2 years ago.
PR: Oh, l2 was it....John.....
IW: .....Skinner.
PR: So, your pop in this very room started this hairdressing business.
IW: That's right.
PR: Good gracious, so this must be one of the very long established shops in the town and barbers' shops.....
IW: ......in the south east of England.
PR: You've never thought of going unisex, then Ivan?
IW: Well, strangely enough it actually started off as a unisex place, though people don't realise that....it wasn't called unisex in those days, but my father did actually do ladies hairdressing in here.
JR: So, iff I came in here to get my hair cut, would you say 'no, I'm sorry' or would you say, 'OK, I'll have a go'?
IW: Oh, no, .....well, I can do it because I was trained, but no, I just keep strictly to men now.
PR: Yes. So you've seen changes outside, you've seen changes in the shop.
IW: Yes, yes, there's been a lot of changes over the years.
PR: You don't actually live above the shop, Ivan do you?
IW: No, no, I live at Broxbourne.
PR: And has that been your home for ever?
IW: Not really, I was born in Hertford, in Tamworth Road, and then my parents moved to Hoddesdon and I spent my childhood at Hoddesdon and then when I got married we moved to Wormley and then to Broxbourne.
PR: And you come on the 3l6.
IW: 3l0.
PR: 3l0.
IW: I've done that for all those years.
PR: Yes, but when your father moved from here, did he immediately set up business in Hoddesdon then?
IW: Yes, yes, that was in the Recession, in the 'thirties, I don't know exactly what happened, but things got.....he did have an accident on his bike. He used to go to Haileybury College cutting hair, and he did have an accident down Hailey Lane and I think that probably started the change, and so he had the shop at Hoddesdon.
PR: The shop was in the parade near Middlefield Road.
IW: Yes, that's correct.
PR: Living above the shop was he, or not?
IW: Yes, that's right.
PR: Oh, so, he was still cutting people's hair because I know he went to Fid's when he was probably 80 I should think.
IW: Yes.......no........when Fid was 80?
PR: No, when your dad was 80....how old was your dad?
IW: He worked 'til he was about 70 anyway.....he was 86 when he died.
PR: Yes, but it wasn't all that long before he died that he was......
IW: ....oh, he was still going round....
PR: .....going around to the house, yes. So what do you think of the change outside the window ....the War Memorial?
IW: I quite like it, but I just wish they'd put more seats out there and make it a bit more like it was when they did it temporary.
PR: There's no talk of doing that then?
IW: No, oh no, they've still got the seats in North Road Cemetery all chained up.
PR: There are some at the end, aren't there, but just at the moment, looking out of the window it's bright sunshine and there isn't a wind, it's very attractive.
IW: Oh, yes, it's quite a nice setting there.
JR: Does the teashop next door put stuff out there? (2012: Café Rouge)
IW: Yes.
JR: Is that why, do you think, the council's left a space for them to put their tables and chairs out?
IW: No, not really. I don't know whether they will be doing it this year, I don't really know. They did last year.
PR: No, we'd better have a little stir up...see if we can't get a bit more use for the space.
IW: Well, I think it would look nicer if there was seats out there, I mean.
JR: There are seats, but they're at the end.....
IW: I think they left it for the Remembrance Service, that's what they tell you, but I can't see that a few seats in the middle there's going to make a lot of difference.
PR: So you're broadly happy with it, but what about the customers, are they still complaining?
IW: No, I think people have accepted it now.
PR: It was a very dodgy....well, going back a long time, the roundabout thing there was.....the camber of the road......
IW: Yes, that's right. People tend to forget that there was a lot of accidents, there was a lot of traffic hold ups, too.
PR: So, what about the customers over the years, that you've tried to forget. Have you had any troublesome ones or notorious ones or any specials?
IW: Not any troublesome ones, no.
PR: Because when there were 3 of you here, it was possible I suppose to organise it so that John got the awkward ones and you got the nice ones or something. You can't escape now, can you!
IW: It was usually me that got the awkward ones!
PR: Oh, was it! Yes. But there must have been quite a lot of town celebrities in through here, people with a story to tell.
IW: Yes, that's right. (a little gap)
JR: Can you think of any funny stories, or anything you think might entertain anyone?
IW: Um.......
PR: Rigor Mortis? He was a customer, wasn't he?
IW: Yes, yes, Rigor Mortis.
PR: Sometimes when you come in there are all sorts of people lined up here saying their....no, we're only skirting over the surface now, we'll come back and do a double check. So, on your training Ivan, how did.....because round the wall are the membership certificates for the Federation of National Hairdressers; City and Guilds and various drawings of styles some of which were popular when you began, I suppose.
IW: Oh, yes, and in the 'sixties and that, yes.
PR: So, how did you qualify, what was the system in your.......
IW: Well, I went to the Regent Street Polytechnic and I did nearly 3 years there and I was taught gents' hairdressing, ladies' hairdressing, wig making, I used to have to do all the trichology, physiology and things like that in those days, physics, chemistry....because a lot of shampoos were made up and lotions were made up, so we had to know about chemistry and had to know all about skin complaints, diseases....yes, it was quite a complicated thing.
PR: Then you came out, and that was it, you didn't have to go back, or be checked up on?
IW: No, you came out, and then you went more or less as an improver to a hairdressing salon. Unfortunately I had to do my National Service when I finished - I did two years in the army - so then I started off in Enfield Highway in a gents' hairdresser's there.
PR: Oh, you didn't slip in with your dad then.....
IW: No, not really. Well, it's the usual thing you know, that father and son don't always see eye to eye.
PR: Mm, especially on things to do with fashion.
IW: Well, this is it.
PR: Oh, that's interesting, because 2 of your teachers have made tape recordings for the museum. Ivan was a pupil of Fid's and a pupil of Miss Stevens.
IW: That's going back a long time, back to the war.
PR: Yes, I mean, what were your impressions of Fiddy as a schoolmaster?
IW: Well, oh, he was quite a good sport for a school teacher, really.
PR: He was unable to do his wartime service because of a bad ticker.
IW: That's right.
PR: But he lived to be 80!
IW: That's incredible, isin't it.
PR: And Miss Stevens....I suppose you mucked about in her classes as much as any others?
IW: No, not really, I was never one of those that did muck about too much! I felt rather sorry for her!
PR: Just watched the others!
IW: I suppose I was quite well behaved, really.
PR: No, well, on the........nowadays in the shop, I mean often there's a queue of people sitting here and conversation starts - you're saying something - they're saying.........what are the usual topics, because you're a bit of a weather man, aren't you?
IW: Yes, well sometimes we get on to the weather. I like gardening, that's quite an interesting topic and the biggest thing is, I think, I introduce people, I say 'right, I think you know this chap, I think you used to go to school with him' and it ends up they'd both been to the Cowper School, and perhaps another one says 'Oh, I went to the Cowper School, as well!' you know, and that starts off a conversation, it's normally history in here, you know.
PR: And you sit back and let them....
IW: .....the past! that's right, I just listen, put a few words in, keep it going.
PR: Very knowledgeable man, Ivan, receives all the gen.
IW: (to A). Would you like something on there?
A. Just a little spray.
PR: Yes, it's a little museum there in that cabinet.
IW: Mm, I think you've got that one of the Coxes, my father let you have it, I think, that's where that came from.
PR: Yes, yes, yes, that's......
IW. They're the originals.
JR: So Watkins was the original name of the shop?
IW: That's right, that was my father.
PR: Which is Ivan's name, so er.......
JR: Oh, I didn't realise that, I thought it was 'The Terrible'.
PR: No, no, no...that's me trying to stir him up. Both of Ivan's daughters were pupils at Broxbourne, Heather and Anne. In fact I was teaching Anne, wasn't I at the time that Heather was born. And we used to do a diary every day when they came to school and in her exercise book on this Monday morning Anne wrote 'today is a really good day, my baby sister was born and we are going to call her Heater' - she misspelt the name Heather, left out the 't', so she was suitably embarrassed.
IW: And called Heater after that!
PR: And how old is Heather now, Ivan?
IW: 32.
PR: 32 years ago!
IW: Makes you feel old now!
PR: Yes. Oh, dear. And Anne lives....
IW: Anne lives at Ely, Cambridgeshire.
PR: With her family of....
IW: 3 children.
PR: Well my worst nightmare here is to come in here for a haircut and put my hand in my pocket and find I've got no money. I do actually occasionally dream of doing that....what an embarrassment!
JR: What about credit, wouldn't you get any credit here?
PR: I don't know.
IW: I trust you.
PR: Do you reckon?
IW: I usually say 'drop in when you can, but don't get run over!'
PR: Well, I'll pay in advance today.
IW: Thanks, Peter. (P. goes to the chair)
JR: How do you manage, if people keep coming in and you want to have a break, what do you do? .....do you close the....oh, I see. (Ivan indicates the 'open/closed' sign)
IW: They've got used to me closing for lunch and I just put the notice up.
JR: So you'll do the last one and then....
A. Has he told you about the operations he used to do?
JR: He will do, now you've mentioned it!
IW: I'm trying to think of any funny stories but I can't think of them now.
PR: Well, you will as soon as we've gone! No, we'll pop back one of these half terms or something, give you a bit of warning.
IW: Just the usual, Peter?
PR: Yes, please, Ivan.
IW: Thank you Arthur. This gentleman's got an interesting job, he goes down to Duxford doing aircraft restoration two days a week. He's retired.
PR: Oh, what a wonderful life! So, what's your connection with Hertford then?
A. My daughter married John Lamdin's...who lives in Hertford...he's the organist...
PR: Yes, yes, Sandy Close.....
A. My daughter married his son. And when I came back from being up north, John used to come here, so I came in here once and I thought this is like the old-fashioned barbers' so I keep coming because there's not one in the Stevenage area.
PR: No, no. I want Ivan to get an award for beening a magnet because people do come quite a long way, the customers that er.....
IW: Last week we had power cuts up to....well nearly 4 hours of power cuts, power failures and one chap came all the way from Southend......
PR: Oh......
IW: ....got in the chair twice and then the power went off again!
A. 'Bye! Thanks a lot!
JR: Can you do any work without electricity, Ivan?
IW: The problem is the light really because it was quite dark, it was last Tuesday.
JR: You had to bring the chair down here?
IW: That's right, I've done that before. They're quite heavy chairs, I'll tell you. We did that in the 'seventies when we had all the power cuts and we had to do that, we pulled the chairs over to the window and cut the hair over there, did it with the hand clippers. I'm afraid my hands don't like the hand clippers much nowadays.
PR: So, where are your rivals then, I mean barbers and hairdressers come and go, don't they, I mean, does it......
IW: All the old rivals have gone...I mean back in the 'sixties with the long hair trend we were the only survivor, we were the only ones that survived out of 8 hairdressers at the time.
PR: Really?
IW: All the rest closed up.
PR: Because of the fashion for long hair?
IW: Yes, that's right.
PR: Yes, the era of the short back and sides must have been wonderful. What sort of interval do people leave their hair then on average, I know I'm no guide at all.
IW: It's hard to say the average really. It just varies. It gets so long nowadays mainly because they can't get in, because the hours they work.
PR: Yes, yes. So, you had....who were your 'sixties rivals....Bill Munt down in Dimsdale Street.....
IW: ....yeah, the Coopers....
PR: Where were they, where were the Coopers?
IW: Down Fore Street.
PR: Don't remember them.
IW: Opposite the gas offices. (sc. the same side, towards Ware)
PR: Oh.
IW: Ledmans round......
PR: ...oh, yes, yes....
IW: ...and Dickie Kerridge......
PR: Where was he?
IW: Down the Ware Road, opposite Addises.
PR: But they've gone. No, I mean you must pick up some bits that you have to keep quiet about. You've had County Hall bosses and doctors in the town, here.
IW: Yes, certain names you have to be careful mentioning.
PR: So, what are your plans for retirement then ....can't be far away.
IW: I am retiring age now, but I'm carrying on just that bit longer...I'll see how it goes.
PR: It's true to say that no-one else has ever cut a hair on my head in the last 40 years, JR, and even when Ivan was off in hospital for bit the year before last was it?.....
IW: 3 years ago.
PR: ....3 years ago....I went round to his house in Wormley and demanded a hair cut....
IW: ....Borxbourne, yes.
PR: Oh, yes, right on the boundary....Bushby Avenue. So I had a little haircut in the back kitchen, didn't I. That's what you call privilege.
JR: Do you ever get any customers, Ivan, who are worried about going bald?
IW: Oh, yes, quite a lot.
JR: And what do you say to them?
IW: Well, not much you can do, it's just age, and if they're young, I usually say look, you may look old now, but in 20 years' time you'll probably still look the same and people will say to you, 'you just don't look any older, you know, you haven't altered for 20 years'.
PR: A good diplomatic answer.
JR: My son was so dismayed at going bald young, but he's got quite acclimatised to it now, I think.
IW: I don't think it's too bad now because a lot of them wear it short and it doesn't look so bad, really.
JR: So not a lot of difference between a skin head and a bald head.
PR: But children, is their behaviour worse than it was, would you say, little kids....do parents control them?
IW: Yes, I think the parents don't seem to be able to control them like they used to, but I find children themselves are quite good having their hair cut. I think the thing is, years ago we used to wear white coats, doctors wore white coats, dentists, hospitals, because they used to come in for their hair cut, saw you in a white coat and start scrreaming their heads off. Thought they might be in for injections or something like that. But the majority are quite good now.
JR: A lot of kids have those hair styles, don't they, where they've got a very closely shaved nape of the neck and up here and a kind of lampshade effect.
IW: That's a pudding basin haircut, that's right.
JR: Do you do those if you are asked to?
IW: I do, but I'm not very keen on doing them because they just remind me of amateur haircuts because, back in the 20s and 30s mothers did actually cut their husband's and boys' hair and they did actually used to put a basin on their head and cut round it. It just reminds me of an amateur haircut. Fortunately it has died out a bit now.
PR: But you wouldn't turn them away as it it were.
IW: Oh, no, no if it's what they want, I'll do it. There's nothing new really, now, I've done it all really, you just get....these syles go round in cycles, you know.
PR: You were telling a chap that was in here before the last customer, Albert, was it.....Arthur..
IW: Arthur was the last customer....
PR: Arthur the last one, about how you were working in the modern age and this mobile phone...
IW: Oh, yes.
PR: .....went off....tell JR that.....
IW: Sorry?
JR: That's me!
IW: Oh, yes, yes. Well, there was a customer in here and he said 'oh, I made it at last' he said, 'I'd been trying to get in for my haircut'. So, he said 'anyway, I've got a bit more time today, so I think I'll have a shampoo'. So of course I cut his hair, he put his mobile on the side, so I cut his hair, nearly finished the shampoo and suddenly the mobile went off and he said 'oh, I'll have to answer it'...so I put the towel over his head and handed him the phone so he could answer it, trying to stop the water from dripping into it. He said 'yes, all right, I won't be long, I'm stuck in a traffic jam at the moment, I'll be there as soon as I can!' This is what I get now, I get people in here and suddenly their mobile goes, and they say 'I can't stop, I'll have to go'...it's terrible how everyone's on call.
JR: A lot of these calls I hear people making replies to seem unnecessary anyway.
IW: That's right.
JR: 'Be home in ten minutes'..that kind of thing.
IW: That's right. We were walking round the supermarket, Sainsbury's the other day and I though 'is that woman talking to herself?' then suddenly I realised she'd got this mobile and she way saying 'so pork chops all right? and what would you like with it?' (lots of laughter)
PR: Oh, dear, to live to that! Um, what about the old contraceptives, then?
JR: Can you wait a minute, because it's nearly time to change the side of the tape.
PR: Oh, well.....
JR: We don't want to get in mid sentence about this, do we?
PR: Well, Ivan might not want to talk about contraceptives.
IW: I'm not worried nowadays.
PR: So, what's happening.....I've got to wait have I ?
JR: Well, it's only a few seconds and I'll be changing it and if you get in mid-sentence you might lose an important statement.
PR: No, I was just going to ask Ivan Whether the.....because the sales used to be very discreet, didn't they really......
IW: Well, we did used to sell quite a lot years ago, but now of course they're sold in other stores, you know, toilets and various places like that, machines.
PR: But you still sell some now?
IW: No, I don't sell them at all now.
PR: That's just a social commentary really.
B
PR: No, I always remember sitting in here, you know when I was younger and people would come in and hardly a word would be said and Ivan or John would put down their irons and sort of go and do a little deal with a brown paper bag in the background.
IW: Yes, that's right, it was all under the counter, all hush, hush like.
PR: And then you found out what it was all about and that made you feel very much part of the man's world as it were. But if they didn't go into a barbers' shop, where else would you buy contraceptives?
IW: Chemists.
PR: Oh, I see, but that would be a young girl.
IW: We had the rights, it was either a gents' hairdressers or chemists.
PR: But most blokes wouldn't probably then have wanted to buy off a lady assistant would they, and most chemists would have had.......
IW: No, that's right.
PR: Yes. At least I haven't gone to sleep today, sitting here! Normall very inclined to nod off with this treatment!
IW: Well, especially when you're at work.
PR: Yes, yes.
IW: I often do get people. Oh yes, there was a case of a chap that.....he used to come in on Saturday and he'd always been to the Blackbirds for a drink and he came in here and he'd get in the chair and of course he just wanted to go to sleep. And the trouble was he wouldn't hold himself up, you know, he just kept going forward and you know, you used to try and hold him up with one arm and start cutting his hair with the other one (laughter), and of course one day I was having so much trouble I said 'John, do you think you could help me?' I said 'look, I just can't manage it, he just keeps going forward'. He said, 'hang on a minute, I've got an idea' he said. So he got the broom, wedged it underneath the basin and propped the chap up (laughter).
JR: What, with the broom head under his chin?
IW: Yes! or on his chest, anyway.
JR: Did it do the trick?
IW: Yes, it was just enough to hold him up.
PR: It's so easy to do even if you haven't had a drink or two but at the end of a working week. And after a beer or two, I suppose over the years you must have had people disputing the way you'd done it, have you? You know, didn't like this effect. You always hold the mirror behind people and say 'this all right? that all right?'
IW: Oh, yes, yes.
JR: I you're doing somebody regularly I expect you get to know exactly how they want it.
IW: Oh, yes, you get to know with anyone what they really want. Sometimes you know more what they want than they do.
PR: Have you ever given the money back and said 'go away' to anybody, or is that....
IW: No, no.
PR: Oh, that's a good record. (To JR) What else is there we might.....employment and things outside the shop, we've dealt with, havent't we. The wartime (to I.) you'd have known about but you were away fighting it.....
IW: No, I wasn't.
PR: Weren't you?
IW: No, I was too young for the war. It was after, when I did my National Service.
PR: Oh, you did National Service after, yes, that's right, no, I'm forgetting that.
IW: I'm not that old, Peter.
JR: What about the shop neighbours, here?
IW: Next door used to be Harry Harry's.
JR: What was he like, a clockmaker, was he?
IW: Yes, that's right. Yes, it used to be Harry Harry's and Sketchley's used to be the other side.
JR: Was Harry his real name, or...
IW: Yes, that was his real name. Harry Harry. He died and it belonged to his sister, Miss Harry.
PR: And Sidney Ilott used to....
IW: That's right. Sid Ilott....he was quite a character, he used to wear this white apron and have his magnifying glass, he was a real old character.
PR: Lovely smell in that shop, wasn't there.
IW: Oh yes, when you went in there all the clocks and that. One day when I went in there, I forget what it was for, anyway I went into the shop and of course there were all those grandfather and grandmother clocks all the way round the shop and I said 'tell me Mr. Ilott, ' I said, because all the clocks told different times, so I said 'why have you got the clocks all telling different times?' So he said 'well, boy, if I'd got them all the same time, when they struck, the ceiling'd come down ..........!' (laughter) and that's why he used to do it. It's amazing the noise that you'd get when all the clocks started at the same time.
JR: I've never thought of that, because they often do, don't they, in clock shops.
IW: Yes.
PR: Did he....I know he used to wind the Shire Hall clock.
IW: That's right. He used to listen to the clock chiming and if it was a minute out he would go round and put it right straight away...shut up shop, go round, put it right. He used to say that someone's job could depend on it.
PR: Oh, what a lovely phrase, yes. Yes, he took me and my dad up there into the clock face once.
IW: Oh, yes.
PR: When I was little. I just remember you could see out into Fore Street on the way up but we actually looked inside that bit that projects over the street. I remember he also said, I may have told you this before, he told me about my grandfather, he said if I grew up to be like him I'd be an OK chap. Apparently one of the remarks I remember him making up in the street at Hertingfordbury Road one night.
JR: Do you think you did, then?
PR: Oh, I've always tried to. Fallen short, but always tried. He had a good reputation, my grandad. No one would ever sort of put a finger on exactly what it was he....you know...but whoever, when we were kids, referred to him always said he was a nice chap, good chap.
But he died in l930 so by the time they were saying that, he'd been dead quite a few years, you know, l5 or 20 years.
(Ivan puts the 'Closed' notice up as it's 20 minutes before lunch)
JR: I think I'd better get a bit of your hair to put in with your......
PR: Oh, yes.
IW: What was that?
JR: A nice curl from Peter's head so we can put it in with his archive in the museum.
PR: Ivan, you're meant to be on my side in this!
JR: A bit with not too much grey in it..(laughter)...there are some dark bits on the floor, one of those might do.
IW: I think the funniest thing as far as hair goes is, I've done lots of Indian haircuts and it's to do with their religion. The youngest one I've done has been 2 weeks old, a baby 2 weeks old. The mother brings them in and you take nearly all their hair off, you run the clippers right over the top. She collects every bit of hair and it's kept in a casket all their life...it's something to do with their religion. You have to sweep up first, get rid of every bit of hair and then all the time you're cutting off she's grabbing a bit of hair to put in a paper bag to take home. Quite often the father's got the baby in his arms, you know.
PR: So, what's going to happen to my hair then, Ivan, it is going grey round the edges isn't it....will it go all of a sudden?
IW: No, I think it will be quite slow, it's not the type of hair that goes grey very quick.
PR: So I'm going to be a nondescript for years?
IW: Do you want a little spray on it Peter?
PR: No, no, that's all right.
JR: Why don't you put some gel on it Ivan, and have it all spikey for a change?
PR: Take no notice!
JR: Then he'd go outside and everyone would think he'd come in the 20th century.
PR: It wouldn't be good for trade, though, would it!
IW: No, it should go all right when it's washed...it's got so very curly this time.
PR: If I'm not going to go bald too quickly I would love it to be flowing white locks, it's very distinguishing.
IW: Probably come in times, but I thing you're going to have to wait a long time.
PR: Get bald first.
IW: No, I don't think so...your hair won't really start going really white until you're probably well into your 60s or 70s.
PR: I shall have lost interest in what I look like.
JR: So, are you going to let it grow, then Peter, if it goes white?
PR: Oh, I'm having, yes, dreadlocks.
IW: And grow a beard.
JR: You could have a bald patch at the top then all the.....coming off.
PR: Yes!
JR: And get a litle skull cap if it gets cold.
IW: Oh, I've got another funny story too, might be of interest. A lot of men'd been growing pony tails and I had one chap in, his 'guvnor' said he'd got to have this pony tail off. So he said 'do you think you could take my hair quite short?' so I said 'yes, all right' I said 'do you want to keep the pony tail?' so he said 'how do you mean?' so I said 'I can cut it off for you, and if you like you can present it to your 'guvnor'....' He said 'oh, that's an idea'...so where the band is, you know the other side of the pony tail, I cut round it very carefully, took it off. I said 'here you are' so he did it up in a parcel and presented it to his 'guvnor' ....I've done one or two since, I've done them for girl friends and wives.
JR: I thought you were going to say you could fix it back on as a kind of hair piece.
IW: Well, I said to one chap, you know, because he had it off, this is the chap that works at one of the pubs...he took his home with him...I said 'if you want to, it's quite easy, if you get a hair pin you can actually pin that back on again, so if you want to wear it in the evening, you can.' (a little gap)
So, what are the tape recordings for?
PR: Well, JR will probably get you to sign a thing...I think actually....
JR: I haven't brought it....
PR: Haven't you? Well, she'll pop back in and...
IW: I'm not here tomorrow, by the way.
PR: Then it can go down to live in the museum. We've probably got enough to do that.
JR: I mean this......
PR: No......
IW: You want some, here you are.
JR: I do, I want to put this in with his other tape recording, he's got one of his own, mind you, that was a few years ago.
PR: Mmm....
IW: You want to put some remark like 'Hair today, gone tomorrow'
JR: That's quite good, isn't it, having not that much grey in it.
PR: No, but it's dark, isn't it....
JR: Well, that's what it is......
PR: It's this time of the year......
IW: Yes, that's right, it bleaches as the summer goes on. I think she's got a crush on you Peter, she wants that for a locket.
PR: Yes, I think that's where it'll finish up, not in the museum!
JR: I didn't hear that. (laughter)
PR: Oh, yes, I need a comb for 30p. I just realised. And you can still buy bristle toothbrushes.
IW: Yes, still got some bristles, still got some Addises, too.
P. to J. Have you seen this picture of Ivan in l948, at his desk up there?
IW: That's when I was at the polytechnic, doing ladies' hairdressing there.
PR: Now, if I take that comb.
IW: I'll give you a comb.
PR: Don't want to ruin the display, Ivan, I'm goint to have a couple of toothbrushes as well. So I want to spend a bit more money.
IW: Well, they're a bargain at £l each anyway.
PR: Well, I'll have 3 of them.
IW: Which ones do you want?
PR: Unless it's going to ruin your display?
IW: No, that's all right, you take whatever you like.
PR: Right, 3 toothbrushes and a comb.
IW: £3.30 please....thank you very much.
PR to JR No, I think we've got enough, no need to come to Ivan for any more. If he tells me anything next time I'm in, that he forgot, I shall tell you the story and you can add it.
JR: Ok then, shall we stop recording?