Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Purkis, Reg (O 1996.13) |
| Interviewee | Reg Purkis (RP) |
| Interviewer | Jean Riddell Purkis(JRP) |
| Date | 04/05/1996 |
| Transcriber by | Jean Riddell Purkis |
Transcript
Reg Purkis (O 1996.13)
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no: O 1996.13
Interviewee: Reg Purkis (RP)
Date: Saturday May 4th, l996
Venue: 7 Molewood Road, Hertford
Interviewers: Jean Riddell Purkis(JRP)
Transcriber: Jean Riddell Purkis
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
(italics) editor’s notes
JRP: This is Jean Riddell. It's Saturday May 4th, l996 and today I'm back at the home of Reg Purkis, 7 Molewood Road, Hertford. I'm here to do a second tape with Reg. Reg did a very good first tape and now......the listener may have to be a little patient as I've had to intercept this recording to correct something....thank you! I'm hoping to persuade Reg to tell us some more about Lower Bengeo, Beane Road, Molewood Road, Port Vale and possibly anything he knows about the North Station. Now, Reg, I've always wondered if you remember anything about the road which leads from Molewood Road to North Road...Beane Road, that is, and how it started.
RP: Well, when I was a boy I used to come down quite a lot to see my uncle and aunt at no. 9 (Molewood Road) and in those days it was just fields. There was no road whatsoever across from the bottom of Nelson Street. I did see that over the years that I used to come down, gradually seeing tipping being done across the meadow to make the foundation for the road and I also remember the piling that went on to build the bridge that spans the river there. And prior to that as a boy, if I wanted to get across to Hertford North Station, that area there, I used to run along the old railway bank that came from Cowbridge Station and get off the other side because there was no road, you see, to get across. I knew I was trespassing, but always kept an eye out for the police!
JRP: So the road was made after the station was in use, was it?
RP: No, no. That must have been built about....it was opened in l922 I think, there is a plaque on the bridge.
JRP: Oh, right, so the road was constructed before the station was officially opened.
RP: Yes, I think the station could have been opened about l923 or 24.
JRP: Yes, I think it was 24. So they had the road going a year or two in advance of the station, probably because they could anticipate people wanting to cut across to the station from Lower Bengeo.
RP: From Bengeo, yes.
JRP: And you actually remember that the station, the entrance, was started during the first world war?
RP: Well, yes, as far as I can remember, because that seems to have been there all the time that I can remember back. Of course the building actually on the railway was stopped during the l9l4-l8 war.
JRP: Right, so in other words, we might have had that North Station earlier, had it not been for the war?
RP: Quite.
JRP: Now, before that, before that station was constructed you had to go to the other North Station.
RP: Yes, and then go to Hatfield and then change at Hatfield to get to Kings Cross.
JRP: Now, was the line open as far as Stevenage when this present North Station was constructed, or was that the terminus then?
RP: They used to run a rail car between Hitchin and Hertford North, There was no through train really except goods trains going north.
JRP: Right, I know the Molewood Tunnel was there but I wondered how far the line actually went.
RP: Oh, it went through to Stevenage, there it got the main line which then took it on to Hitchin.
JRP: So before Beane Road was made, was there any way of getting across from anywhere in Port Vale....any public path....you just had to go and trespass?
RP: The only way you could join onto the.....I forget the number of the road which goes from here to Stapleford, Waterford, was to carry along straight along Molewood, lower Molewood and there were iron gates. It was mainly a private road, made I believe so that the Smiths from Goldings could cut through there to go to Christ Church. Hence there was a gate there which was locked, chained and there was a little wicket gate that you could walk through,
JRP: Yes, but of course the other purpose for that lane was probably the mill, wasn't it, Molewood Mill. I see. So, if you wanted to get into the North Road, then you either went up that way and down again or you went right down into town and back up again. Beane Road then, was quite an advance, wasn't it?
RP: Oh, it was, yes.
JRP: Do you remember anything about Sele Grange ....off North Road...because that garden would have come back down almost into the meadow next to Beane Road, wouldn't it....next to the railway line.
RP: This would be beside the Sele Arms.
JRP: Behind?
RP: At the side there was.....as a matter of fact the wife and I, we had our wedding reception....there was a big house there and it belonged to the Mayflower Catering.....very large grounds.
JRP: I think that was...yes....maybe was taken over....it was a sort of hotel, was it?
RP: Yes, that sort of thing.
JRP: That may have been Sele Grange which had been converted perhaps...I'll have to find out a bit more about that. But the Mayflower then....did it move into Hertingfordbury...was that the same company?
RP: Yes, that was sold and the new estate built on there. You've got Grange Close, there haven't you?
JRP: But was it there up until that time, then, did it still stand there?
RP: Yes.
JRP: What, sort of 60s or 70s?
RP: Yes, I think so. Alf Kemp was the man that kept that and then they moved to Hertingfordbury and took over what the people of Hertingfordbury thought was their village hall and there was quite a lot of upset over this because he took it over and the villagers had got nowhere to go.
JRP: Yes, I've heard a bit about that already.
RP: This happened about the time that Panshanger estate was sold.
JRP: So it was about the mid-fifties, '53 or '54, yes, I see. Now, you've lived in this area for a very long....I think you moved here...was it when you were four?
RP: I think I've lived in this area now...in Molewood Road since l92l...so round about l0 then.
JRP: l909...l92l....you'd have been l2...so you do remember everything that was going on here for all those years!
RP: Well, I think so!
JRP: One thing that struck me....whenever I cycle along Beane Road and I look at the back of these houses, they must have been either in danger of, or quite often, flooded.
RP: Oh, they were. But this property along here was never really affected by flood water....the gardens may have been covered but nothing ever came into the house until about l943.
JRP: During the war then. What occasioned that, was there a high water level or....
RP: I think we had a lot of frost and snow.
JRP: A lot of thaw then.
RP: I think we had a very bad winter and the ground was hard and the water just went over the top of it.
JRP: So were you always worried about the possibility of floods or didn't it occur to you...
RP: No, it might come halfway up the garden but that was as far as it went.
JRP: Some of the houses a bit farther along look decidedly as though they're sinking on one side, to me.
RP: Well, yes, they've been looking like that ever since.
JRP: The forties?
RP: Well, since I came here. There was always a telegraph pole stood up and looking at the top of the pole and walls you could see a gap at the top, although some people tried to put it down to the floods, but this is before we really had any bad floods.
JRP: So this was prior to the forties then?
RP: Yes.
JRP: Oh, so...well, I suppose they mustn't be going to get any worse then if they've been like that all this time.
RP: Well, I don't know how those houses were built but I do know that this one had a concrete raft.
JRP: Is that how it was originally built?
RP: I think you'll find that these first properties were built on that system with the concrete raft...it may be those further up weren't...because I've been in those houses and where they were tipping over really, when you were walking along the living room it was....you felt that you were climbing.
JRP: Oh, I see.
RP: And if you lifted the boards up, there was nothing but earth underneath, so I think that...................
JRP: The foundations were not wonderful then?.......now, were they built before this row.
RP: No, this was the first lot of houses built in this row. This house was built in l907.
JRP: So, this area of Lower Bengeo, is it all about the same age...I mean, the houses facing you, are they earlier than this one?
RP: Earlier.
JRP: Oh, earlier. So originally they faced the meadows.
RP: They did, and this used to be a football pitch.
JRP: This? Oh, did it, who played there then?
RP: Well, I just can't know, but I do know someone who's now passed over and they used to football at the back of the houses here.
JRP: Oh. Who's this next door with the timber yard, or whatever it is?
RP: Well, that was a painters' yard and it belonged to Chapman and they just had a shed one side and a shed along here and the rest was garden. And they used to dig that and then of course it was sold to Butler of Ware and he made a wood yard of it which is an absolute eyesore.
JRP: Yes, it's not really a very good view as you come down Beane Road, is it.
RP: No, not at all. As a matter of fact he had a yard at....I think it was Vicarage Road, Ware and there were so many complaints that he had to close it down and brought it here.
JRP: Who grazes their cattle on the meadow behind us?
RP: I believe they're two sons of Pateman that used to be a milkman years ago (Carlton Brothers of Chelmsford Road; Pateman had a link somehow. Also at Wareham’s Lane).
JRP: I thought that's who it was, I wanted to hear you say that though. The other Pateman family....the dairy family.
RP: That's right...I believe they live out at Stapleford.
JRP: Right, and have to keep coming in then to see to them. Do they ever take them away?
RP: No. what they do occasionally is change them from one side of the river to the other according to how the grass is.
JRP: And how....they bring them out, do they, on to the road?
RP: Bring them out on to the road...drive them...I've known them to drive them across there but I believe now they've got a small horse box effort that they get a couple in or something and take them....I think so.
JRP: I hadn't ever seen anyone driving any cows down Beane Road.
RP: But that used to be a regular thing in Hertford from Fore Street to the Cattle Pens (meaning the cul de sac known as the Cattle Pens, 1-27 Port Hill, with the actual pens by the railway at the ‘Cattle Dock’)....all through Cowbridge.
JRP: One of their forebears started up by grazing his cattle in Hartham and driving them through the town...Cowbridge and down St. Andrew Street to the dairy. And that's within a lot of people's memory. But some of them actually remembered doing it....helping. It's incredible , isn't it how things have changed.
I'm looking at my notes here to make sure I don't forget anything....now, you were a boy at....first of all started school at Christ Church...didn't you and then at that time you were living not here, but up in Parkhurst Road and as soon as you changed schools.....
RP: No, I think it was the age of 9 you left the Infant School and went to Senior School. And I elected to go to Bengeo 'cos I was living in Parkhurst Road which was half way between the two, and continued there until I was l4.
JRP: Yes, so during that time your parents moved down here - so, you had a longer distance to travel. What was it like living in this area when you were a child....was it fairly rural still?
RP: Very rural. It was a lovely time, I look back and think of when I used to go to the end of the road and play in the woods which are now built on.
JRP: At the end of this road you've got that steep rise with steps going up.....
RP: Well, those steps were never there, we knew that as 'the steep hill'.
JRP: Just a bare, rough......
RP: Field, yes, ruts in where the water used to run down. As a matter of fact we used to toboggan down there whenever there was snow on the ground.
JRP: Yes!....a bit steep for that! Yes, so you played up there quite a bit?
RP: Played up there in the woods.
JRP: And no houses at all there in the woods?
RP: There was just one at that time, one of the Graveson family....he lived on the corner as you got to the top of the steep hill. That was the only house, it was all woodland.
JRP: So, where else did you play?
RP: Well, we used to go over in these fields and have a game of cricket.
JRP: And farther up Molewood Lane....the end of the road here?
RP: Well, we used to go out into the Waterford Marshes which is further out and picnic there. That's where I learned to swim.
JRP: So, you weren't one of the people that learned to swim in Hartham, then?
RP: No, no. That was nothing more than the river with some concrete round it. Although I used to go there at times, particularly from Bengeo School.
JRP: What about facilities round here....were there many shops or other little businesses?
RP: Oh, yes, we had Wellington Street Stores (no. 56) which you could get there by going just across the road and up by their garden....go in the back way. Then we had the off license in Nelson Street where you could get....I didn't used to go up there for beer....but then they kept a few odds and ends and cottons and needles and things there.
JRP: Neither of these are Cox's, are they....that was there as well as these others.
RP: Oh, yes.
JRP: Were these other shops that you're describing , were they in houses?
RP: Yes. Really built into an ordinary house with a kind of shop front put on.
JRP: And they've reverted now to residential use?
RP: Yes, yes.
JRP: But Cox's was quite a big shop, wasn't it....purpose built?
RP: Purpose built yes. But then up in Byde Street, halfway up on the same side as Cox's, there used to be a sweet shop (no. 24). I believe the window is still there today.
JRP: So, you could do your shopping, or some of it, without going into town?
RP: Yes, absolutely and of course down in Port vale I can remember a shoe shop there; I can remember Bridens and beside Briden's was another shop which was a sweet shop, and that was owned and run by one of the Botsfords, the people that used to have the hardware shop in the town.
JRP: What about pubs - we've got now 'The Two Brewers' and 'The Millstream'...were they both there?
RP: Yes, and furthermore there was one opposite the Christ Church Infant School...'The Rising Sun'.
JRP: Is that at the end of Russell Street?
RP: No, no. Going down the road past Nelson Street, it's the first turning on the left hand side...where Christ Church used to be...what’s it called?
JRP: Balfour Street, is it?
RP: Yes, you run into Balfour Street.
JRP: The Infants' School itself...was it in Balfour Street or in Port Vale?
RP: Well, really in Balfour Street. It was right next door to the railway bridge....the trains used to run right by it.
JRP: I see, it was down there, it wasn't right next door to the church, then.
RP: Well, it was at the back of the church.
JRP: Oh, yes, I'm thinking of the railway bridge over Port Vale....behind, yes, I know where you mean....I know where that pub is now, I've just realised where you mean...it's quite a big building isn't it, still there....got it now, got it! Sorry I was a bit slow on this, but I have to bring into play my memory of pictures I've seen, because I've got no past memories, myself. So, when you walked along from this house towards the town....what was along the road....you came under the railway bridge - a very narrow road there, went a bit farther on and the Millstream pub was.....
RP: .....on the left. Before you got there on the right was a little cottage that a Mr. Capel used to keep. It was just a private house and used to be able to go in there and buy your paraffin and matches. I always remember opening the front door straight off the road almost, and a terrific clang on the bell to warn her (?) that there was someone coming in and that was on the right. Almost opposite was the Millstream.
JRP: And do these houses, one of which you've just described to us, do they go back....have they got a different level inside, is the front shorter than the back?
RP: I believe there's about one step down, as I have from this living room into my kitchen.
JRP: Oh, just that sort of level. So, you passed the Millstream....what else was of interest?
RP: I'm speaking now of when I was eleven or twelve. You go on to Balfour Street and on that corner was Christ Church.
JRP: Yes. Facing Port Vale?
RP: It ran alongside Balfour Street.
JRP: Yes, so was the entrance facing Port Vale?
RP: No, the entrance was actually at the side of the church.
JRP: Oh, yes, so it was on The Grove Lodge side.
RP: That little lodge, I used to take my shoes there to be repaired. The keeper of the lodge used to do shoe repairs, Chapman. (Mary Martin’s father).
JRP: Oh, yes, I think I've heard of him. In fact, where those newer houses are in Russell Street, was that once a garden?
RP: That was a garden and an orchard, too. In the summer time a tent or marquee used to be erected there and there were nightly - a concert party that used to perform there.
JRP: I did a tape recently with Sid Bunyan...
RP: Sid Bunyan?
JRP: John Bunyan's brother. He told us about that because they had relatives, wait a minute, let's get this right, they lived in Russell Street....not relatives....in the older houses facing that garden and quite often went over to see the entertainments.
RP: Trying to think of the name, Scott somebody. Of course opposite that wall along there, the wall by the little lodge, was McMullens' maltings.
JRP: Some of the outbuildings are still there at the back, and those rather bigger houses next to the maltings....were they............?
RP: They were what McMullens' people lived in.
JRP: If we pass the end of Russell Street, what was on the corner of Russell Street and Port Vale, was that a pub?
RP: Oh, Sadler, the coal merchant, it was also a pub and there was a kind of a shop entrance there and he used to take his orders for coal going up a couple or three steps into this office place and there he would take his orders.
Side B
RP: And the back of it was the bar for selling the beer.
JRP: Near there, wasn't there a chapel?
RP: Yes.
JRP: Was that still in use in your....
RP: I can remember that chapel before it was made into the Oakwood Laundry which incorporated the chapel place at the back and an extra building was put on the front....all knocked into one.
JRP: Was the chapel set back from the road originally?
RP: It was, yes.
JRP: So, it's got a false front?
RP: Yes, they broke through the wall and made one building. The Oakwood Laundry, that became, they were a chain of laundries from North London. They may have done some cleaning and washing there but they may also have taken it to a main place.
JRP: Yes. There weren't drying grounds anywhere round there with sheets hanging and that kind of thing?
RP: No room for that!
JRP: On the other side, did McMullens' maltings come right up to what is now Millmead School....it was Port Vale School....
RP: Yes, yes, there was just an entrance road down between the school and....but of course, they've extended the Millmead school since.
JRP: Yes, there's a new bit on the side. Did the malting come almost as far as George Street?
RP: No, as far as Russell Street.
JRP: And then as you go along past the laundry, there was nothing of interest really between that and the pub.
RP: No, just houses straight out onto the pavement and then you got George Street.
JRP: Was there ever anything up there, a bakery or anything?
RP: Well, there was an entrance there, at the back to go into Bridens' Bakery, on the right hand side.
JRP: If you go past Bridens and the shoe shop....
RP: ....shoe shop Wells....
JRP: ....there's a little passage going up to some more houses behind, sort of squeezed in the back there.
RP: That is further down - archway - Russell Court I believe it's called today. Those houses have been there for donkeys' years.
JRP: Yes, it's between George Street and.......
RP: ....the Cattle Pens....
JRP: So the school is more or less opposite the end of George Street. The houses next to that, they're slightly bigger .....were they anything special?
RP: No, but I do know that at one time, there was a pub there, because opposite what is now the television shop, you could vaguely see on the wall 'porter and wine'....and I take it that one of the houses there was at one time a pub.
JRP: Was it written on the front of the house?
RP: About half way along.
JRP: I'll have to look....I expect it's been painted over. And now we have a gap between these houses and Vale House. So was that all Vale House garden, stabling....?
RP: There used to be a man named Ramsden and at one time it was an allotment, but I can remember when there was a tennis court in there which was run by Christ Church...kind of fellowship or a club....and I played tennis behind that wall years back.
JRP: Yes, and then you've got Vale Stables which are now of course being developed into an Arts' Centre. Just earlier on, when you said to me 'the cattle pens'...now they were on the other side of the road......behind Port Vale somewhere?
RP: No. Imagine you're going up Port Hill and you're looking down and on your left hand side you've got a road running along. This was always known to me as the cattle pens because at the end there....the railway bridge which you go over....if you look over the top there were platforms and they used to bring the cattle trucks along the railway, the cattle used to be driven through the town up that road and into the cattle trucks on the railway.
JRP: So, it was just like a halt there?
RP: Well, if there was a load of animals coming and they wanted to make up a goods' train....
JRP: .....they put them in from there....they didn't take them round to the station.
RP: Oh, no, they put them in there and if you go over the bridge you'll notice that that road continues to the other side as the railway would have run through and I've got a feeling that at some time that could have been the old road to Bengeo.
JRP: Yes, and they had to make the road higher to go over the railway. What about those cottages next to the large properties as you come round the corner of Port Vale and Port Hill...there's some large property on the corner.
RP: There was an architect that had his offices there at one time. I can remember it was a very well-known architect, but then after that I was friendly with another architect who lived there...Kasimal Day.
JRP: Going past those big houses there are some houses set at right angles, there's an alleyway to approach them...I don't know whether you ever knew Phoebe Carter, but she lived for some time in the first of these cottages....recently that is....I wondered what those cottages had originally been.
RP: I don't know...I was trying to think of someone I knew there 50 years ago!
JRP: Then a bit farther along that old road was the house belonging to the Stocks...do you know them?
RP: Oh, yes, I knew the Stocks....it was a Miss Stocks, a schoolteacher.......
JRP: Doris was it, or Clara.....where did she teach, Port Vale?
RP: It was Port Vale.
JRP: I think that was Doris.
RP: Because she came to my son....my son was giving a trumpet recital at St. Andrew's Church.
JRP: Oh, yes, she was treasurer for many, many years, about 40 years or something...
RP: And David was playing this recital with the organ and she came up because she taught him at school, so pleased to see him.
JRP: Yes, they were a very well thought of family. Agnes Stocks who married Arthur....
RP: I know one of the Stocks was very keen in aeronautics, making model aircraft and flying them in Hartham.
JRP: I'm not sure if that was Arthur....there was more than one brother I think. Who did you know that lived in Port Vale or Molewood Road or any of the road going up towards the hill?
RP: Well, there was a character living in Wellington Street, his name was Baxter and he was an assistant hangman.
JRP: Oh yes, yes, carry on, do tell us more! Where did he do this job?
RP: Well I don't know the number of prisons that he worked at where these hangings took place.
JRP: So, he travelled about, did he?
RP: He did. I believe he hung some of the Sinn Fein people in Ireland and I know that he worked, his official job was at Waltham Cross where the powder mills were.
JRP: Gun powder factory?
RP: I think he was manufacturing armaments, guns of some sort and at one time he was always escorted to Hertford East Station to catch the train by a sergeant of police because I think the Irish were after him.
JRP: So, this hangman's job, it was a part-time job, he worked as well at the armaments factory. What was he like, did you know him?
RP: I knew him, we used to go swimming over at the river.
JRP: How did he get into that (job) then? (not the river!)
RP: I don't know, not the sort of job I should follow!
JRP: What sort of person was he then?....was he all right?
RP: Yes, yes and he had a nice moustache. Unfortunately he went blind in the end and he used to be accompanied about. He used to have a white stick and he had another friend who worked with him up at Waltham Cross. He used to come and get hold of his arm and take him out for walks on Sunday afternoons.
JRP: Oh, well, that's news, isn't it.
RP: I remember the first Labour Mayor of Hertford, he lived opposite me, his name was Proctor and he was a signalman at the Hertford North Station.
JRP: And that was when it was a borough?
RP: Yes. I think he did a good job, I knew him up to the time he died, actually, at that time I'd got a little printing press and he came to me and I did some circulars for him for when he put up for election.
JRP: So, was he elected and became mayor quite soon?
RP: I can't remember.
JRP: It doesn't matter. So were there people calling with complaints over the road?
RP: I wouldn't know. I was so much younger then. One of the people I do remember well was another mayor of the town, Ashley Webb, who there is a memorial to in the Castle grounds.
JRP: Yes, did he live around here?
RP: Yes, he lived at Port Hill House which is now the offices there.
JRP: Vale House?
RP: Vale House, yes. He was the gentleman that used to walk from his house to the Hertford North Station night and morning and it was 'a good morning' to everyone and he lifted his hat, a real gentleman.
JRP: So, he worked in London?
RP: Yes, he was with some drug firm in London (apposite, as his home later became Vale House Drug Rehabilitation Centre).
JRP: What about the ordinary people living around, what were they like as neighbours?
Was there a good sense of community?
RP: Oh, yes there was. I'd love those days to come back again. The nearest we got to that was.....well, I'm now going back 50 years and it was the war years when everyone was kind to one another and helped one another....you could walk about safely.
JRP: There was some flooding down here in the street at one stage. I think not that long ago...was it in the seventies?
RP: It was '68.
JRP: What are your memories of that?
RP: I was working at Goldings at the time and rather worried about the water when I went out in the morning. There seemed to be a lot hanging about. When I came home at lunch time the field was really covered and seemed to be getting higher and higher. I had my dinner, went back, cycled across to Goldings and either side of the...it was like going out on a groyne at the seaside. The fields were absolutely flooded.
JRP: Like a causeway!
RP: And I said to the Head of Department: "I don't think my place is here this afternoon, I think we are in for some trouble". So he said, "you'd better get off home". Incidentally our boys that were in the printing department, to get them home, they had to get a tractor with a trailer on the back and get them through the streets of Waterford because that was all flooded. But I came home here and it was coming up to the step outside (back) and I'd only had a new carpet down about 8 or 9 months. Fortunately a neighbour across the road came over, a rather big woman, and together we pulled this new carpet up, got this table out into the middle of the room, got the carpet on it and what chairs we could and we bunged a lot up stairs and before we knew where we were , just got the carpet up and water was coming through here. We decided we'd better evacuate. Eventually came half way up the gas fire, right the way through, and out the front door. I remember that day all right!
JRP: So, where did you go, upstairs, or out of the house?
RP: No, this friend that had helped us up with the carpets, said come over my house. Then to get across there we had to wade across the road.
JRP: So the water didn't get to those houses opposite.
RP: No, some of them have got cellars and it did penetrate through the ground and get into their cellars.
JRP: Oh, what a frightening thing. What happens in that case when you have electrical sockets on the wall, do they all have to be re-done?
RP: The next morning came along some of the council ......boys...but I'd already tried one switch and it made a bang and so I told him I couldn't have any electricity and we had turned the meter off.
JRP: By this time, had the water subsided a bit then?
RP: By the next day. But by golly you were walking about in slime and muck. Anyway, this smart lad, he went and switched the current on and blow me, everything went, everything in the meter blew. We had to have blowers in the house to dry the house out and we had nothing on the floors for three weeks because they were wet through. I had a couple of days off work shovelling muck out. Of course Beane Road helps hold water back. You've only got the bridge where it can get away. Whereas when it used to get away it used to spread all over those fields.
JRP: Yes, it is a flood plain, which is nature's way of coping with an overflow and if you interfere with that you create problems.
RP: And of course with all this new building, like with Sele Farm....where it was farmland, there the water just went into the ground, now you've got all your roads built there, that all comes down when you often are getting flooding down by the Sele (Arms)...by Hertford North Station.
JRP: Yes, I don't think it's flooded there very recently but I remember it flooding by the North Station since I've been living in this town. A big puddle across the road. Well, I hope it doesn't happen....but are they looking into this matter now then?
RP: Well, of course there's been a draining effect going on in the Lea Valley where they've dug the channels deeper. I can remember my neighbour next door, her son built canoes at the end of the road and he brought a boat out when we were flooded here and he was rowing down the road and up Beane Road and ferrying people from Hertford North Station, half way up Nelson Street where they could get out!
JRP: I'm quite used to boats in the streets because where I used to live in Deal as a child, the High Street was at a lower level than the sea. You got some very high tides coming over the sea front and straight down into the High Street....that was quite a sight!
RP: We didn't sleep there that night....we couldn't get across Beane Road....my son in law and daughter came down and took us. We had to go right along Molewood to get up to Sele Farm - drove through there and we stayed there the night. Came down and looked at the wreckage the next morning. That is the only time this house has been flooded right the way through.
JRP: Yes. All these in this row on this side?
RP: No, unfortunately here, when the water comes through it builds up and comes through the first one.
JRP: Oh,. it comes from that direction, from the corner.
RP: Well, it builds back, it's coming from up here.
JRP: So it flows this way but it builds up...so it goes past those houses up there.
RP: I'm afraid we might get something more like this since McMullens have hired all their ground....where they're hoping to build. You can see they've raised that about 6 feet. And that is going to throw flood water back here, whereas I remember those fields there, they were as low as the meadow, at the back here. I used to walk across there to take my father's meal sometimes lunchtimes and there were newts and toads....a lot of wild life, that's all gone.
JRP: Has anybody else thought about this problem?
RP: Well, I've spoken about it. The River People came to me and I said this would create flood water because after we had the floods here two or three years ago, my kitchen was flooded then but not right the way through and we had the Rivers Authority come along and question those people that had any damage and I mentioned it then.
JRP: Can I change the subject slightly, I don't know whether we've got much more tape left but your uncle next door, no. 9. was he indirectly related to the Bunyans?
RP: Yes.
JRP: Right, can you, 'cos Sid couldn't quite remember how.
RP: Well, that I cannot really say. The Bunyans were also related to the Botsfords.
JRP: Yes, I've got that connection, but I wasn't clear who the uncle had married, or if the connection was with his mother.
RP: That I just can't say. John Bunyan was the watch repairer and his sister Doris, she had a hare lip. She never married neither did John. He was a bachelor.
JRP: But Sidney did marry...his son is.....
RP: Yes, I'd forgotten all about him.
JRP: He worked in Gravesons in the Boot Dept. but not for very long. He left the town in l925 and went to work in Newmarket and then Luton, came back in l936 for two years as manager in Gravesons, but found the town too quiet for him after these rather bigger towns and he left again before the war.
RP: I'd love to see the town back as it was round about that time....
JRP: Yes, this what you said before...yes!......thriving businesses.