Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Dennis, May (O1995.1) |
| Interviewee | Miss May Dennis (MD) |
| Interviewer | Peter Ruffles (PR) |
| Date | 26/12/1995 |
| Transcriber by | Jean Riddell (Purkis) |
Transcript
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no O 1995.1
Interviewee: Miss May Dennis (MD)
Date: 26th December, 1981
Venue: 53, Hertingfordbury Rd, Hertford
Interviewers: Peter Ruffles (PR)
Transcriber: Jean Riddell
Scanned by: Geoff Cordingley
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s notes
Peter knocks at the door. The door is opened.
PR: Hello!
MD: Come in! (laughing)
PR: Um, I'm going away tomorrow to Mum and Dad's and I've got that bit of chicken that Mrs. Harding found me. Can you manage it?
MD: Thank you very much.
PR: Good! I thought I'd ….
MD: Take a seat.
PR: It's err ….you'll have to eat it fairly quickly because it has to be …. it's been frozen.
MD: Yes!
PR: And “they” say eat it within two or three days of purchase. Well, I've had it a couple of days. Well it's been outside, actually in the cellar.
(something unintelligible)
MD: Take a seat!
PR: Just going down the church to sort the heating out.
MD: How is the heating?
PR: It's over the worst.
MD: It is?
PR: Yes. Well, it's not right. Not absolutely right, it keeps stopping every now and then
MD: What, what is the …. oh. shall I take those?
PR: Yes
MD: What is the church heated with?
PR: Oil, and it's very expensive now. It was the cheapest when we had it twenty years ago. But we are going over to gas in the summer.
MD: You are? We've got gas in the church.
PR: Yes, I think it's the better one now but the system has just got older and older and it's decided to give us a few hiccups and we don't want the hiccups, especially just before Christmas. Anyway,
it's been all right. It's worked over Christmas and if I get it going now it will be all right for tomorrow.
MD: Have you turned it off tonight?
PR: Yes, it's on a time switch and it'll go on automatically, but it needs to be checked. It used to be reliable and you could be sure it was on if it .... going down myself to check it. It's down in the old boiler house where it used to be when it was coke fired, so you have to go down a little dark passage …. going round in the dark a bit ….
MD: Will you have gas in the same place?
PR: Probably, yes. They're talking about it.
MD: That's going to cost something.
PR: Yes, nearly eight thousand, maybe, because they want to put a new pipe in if we have gas. Lay it from St. Andrew St. round to the back of the church, whereas the old piping isn't sufficient to take the gas supply all the way round. That's part of the cost.
MD: Well. I suppose in the long run it could be less expensive if you have new pipes.
PR: I think so.
MD: Because it's the same as along here. The pipes must be rusty.
PR: Yes. yes, they're bound to be.
MD: Yes! Er, have you been away for Christmas?
PR: No! I'm thinking of going away tomorrow, down to see mother and father.
MD: Oh, how are they?
PR: Very well.
MD: I'm glad of that.
PR: Yes, I think they get rather worse weather than we do, there.
MD: Really?
PR: But they're very happy.
MD: Well, that's the chief thing, isn't it?
PR: It's very slippery tonight again. It's begun to thaw. Then it's sort of put a grease over the top of the ….
MD: Oh, that's worse, isn't it? Were you on your own for Christmas Day?
PR: Yes, had a good time!
(Laughter)
MD: Did you get a good congregation?
PR: Up on last year.
MD: Was that at midnight?
PR: Yes! Yes! We keep getting new records, keep going up and up.
MD: I suppose more people coming into the town?
PR: Yes! And young families. We get a lot of young people.
MD: It's youngsters you want to keep, isn't it?
PR: Yes, we don't want to lose the older ones but it's nice that there's a young and active congregation. We've got a big creche, the children go off to the hall and have a sort of Sunday School thing.
MD: Oh, Well, that helps, doesn't it? They're going to start that at our church. I went to the Convent Midnight Mass.
PR: Oh, did you?
MD: Yes, I was taken. I went with Mr. Adams. He took people - that was nice because to go to the church you have to go so early to get a seat. So, yes, I like to go to Hertingfordbury.
PR: Yes, cor, I didn't think you'd be up at Midnight?
MD: You didn't? I think it was about 2 o'clock when I got home!
PR: Jolly good!
MD: Yes, there were some people Mr. Adams picked up from Sele Farm and then somebody from Cowbridge, then he called for me.
PR: Jolly good!
MD: I don't know if you know him, he lives at Robin Hill?
PR: I don't think I do. That's Berkhamsted, is it?
MD: No, not Robin Hill! Marks lived there. This is Molewood.
PR: Oh!
MD: You know that house that stands high? You go along, um, North Road, Then you go up a drive.
PR: I know, yes. Oh. I don't know them, but I know where you mean. Yes! Adams!
Look at all your cards!
MD: Yes, I haven't done any decorating, not, em, I like holly for Christmas.
PR: Yes.
MD: Now we're going to wait and see. I was thinking about your films.
PR: Oh, yes!
MD: Now, my brother would be very interested in that. So see what we can do.
PR: Well, yes, you tell me when, and we'll …. as long as we've got a bit of …. it's no good here, because you haven't got any electricity.
MD: No. Perhaps it's nice to have electricity, but you can't have a 'phone, which would be very convenient for me. My sister-in-law, she's ….
PR: Yes, I'd forgotten, that's a disadvantage,
MD: So we'll see what's going to happen in 1982!
PR: Dear, oh dear, yes!
MD: But of course this isn't a convenient house for entertaining. Really, it's no good trying to do something that you can't.
PR: Well, it isn't really …. It's convenient from other points of view. It's handy for ….
MD: Yes
PR: Town and living in, but I agree, entertaining, it's not quite designed, is it really?
MD: No, no. There's something that you, I don't know what it is, but whatever you do, it never seems, something missing.
PR: Still, anyway, it'll soon be a curiosity in itself (gas) light, you'll have to have guided tours to inspect the fittings!
MD: The man who buys something old, he said they would buy those pipes.
PR: Oh!
MD: There wasn't any gas when we came here, no. You ought to have seen the place. Oh, it was in a state, yes, and my youngest brother, he got Vines to come, and we had it decorated from top to bottom. And then a lot of shelves, out of what I call the scullery. They don't use that word today.
PR: No.
MD: They use kitchen, and they had all those there and I thought well, I would never go here, because there were eight papers on this wall. And my sister-in-law who lived up Sele Road, she come and helped scrape the walls.
PR: When did you come here, what year was that?
MD: They tell me next door, that the youngest, Doll, she was going to school. Now she retires in about two years' time.
PR: Yes.
MD: And she'll be sixty, so we must have been here nearly forty years. But, (laughing) they know more than I do now! But why we came here, the house in Tamworth Road, a man bought it who wanted to live in it. Well, er, Butlers lived here then and he, his wife died and he went into Western House, private.
PR: Yes.
MD: And my father knew him and that's how we got this house, because we were badly in need of a house.
PR: Oh.
MD: Because when we came here, I was thinking, Mrs. Jeffries was living along there.
PR: Oh, yes, Mrs. Harding's mother.
MD: Is she any worse?
PR: No, I think she's a little better. Yes, she seems to have rallied a good bit on this one.
MD: Marvellous, isn't it. And wasn't there someone called Broadbent or some such name as that?
PR: Yes, I remember someone living near us called Harry Broadbent. What about down here?
MD: There was a Mr. Walls living in number 37. That was Mr. Walls' brother.
PR: Oh!
MD: I remember them, and, was it …. Chapman ….
PR: Yes.
MD: Ella, Emma Chapman lived (above) us and Ella Dance. They used to say these gardens always looked nice.
PR: Did they?
MD: Well, I suppose Mr. Dance kept his nice and everybody else had to do the same.
PR: It's a tricky little bit. It faces North and it's hard to keep ….
MD: Yes, it's not worth growing any ….
PR: Well, certainly not now they've shortened. the gardens.
MD: Because they took …. they gave everyone £1.50.
PR: Yes. Where were you before that? Did you say, Castle Street, you 1ived in?
MD: Yes, I lived in Castle Street, no. 55.
PR: I know, yes, facing you as you go across in front of the garage.
MD: I tell you who lived there before we did, Mr. Dickins, yes, and my father was manager of the greengrocers and florists where the Lloyds Bank is, and, of course, he knew Mr. Dickins and he was looking for a house in Hertford, so Mr. Dickins said mine will be to let.
And that belonged to Ginns. Old Mrs. Ginn I think lived at The Hollies, Queen's Road, I think. So my mother …. I remember coming to Hertford to look at that house and then we took that.
Well then we went back to Hoddesdon. We lived there for nearly two years while the gentleman who was, the shop belonged to, died, so the shop was given up. Of course it was too high class really. Mr. Turner, he was the owner and he owned Hailey Nurseries, and the people were against him as he was a gentleman owning a shop.So it was really lovely inside and I remember the 'strong room' and they used to keep the sacks of potatoes there. And there was a nice garden, I liked the garden.
So then we went back to Hoddesdon. We came to Hertford, to Tamworth Road. Then we went to Townshend Street. You see, my father, he was not a man to be interested in a house, he was a man that, my younger brother used to say, "He was no good without plenty of money!" He never did a thing when we came here - left to my brother. Then, we went back to Tamworth Road, then came here and this is the tenth house I've lived in!
My mother's first home was Stanstead Road, Hoddesdon. Then we went to live in the Ware Road. Then we went to live in the High Street because Mr. Turner had a shop there. See, my father was manager and he was so pleased with the result of that shop. He wanted a shop in Hertford. And, if he'd been living, he wanted a shop somewhere else. But he wasn't and I happened to be the first of the family to hear that he'd met with an accident. I happened to be talking to someone and a girl said something about Mr. Turner meeting with a, this accident. Well, it was a shock, see, and then I remember it was after the funeral, my father took me to Amwell churchyard to see the grave. Yes, so, I've had some experiences.
PR: Yes.
MD: Yes, he was very interested in us as children because there was only my eldest brother then. You see, my eldest brother died and his wife lives up West Street, Westall Close. She lives in the flat next to the warden. Oh, they've been without a warden, for a ….
PR: Yes, they have - now is she a white-haired lady? Yes, I've met her. Yes, I didn't realise she was your sister-in-law.
MD: And then that was my eldest brother's wife. Then of course my eldest brother lives up Foxholes Avenue. 'Course, I'm older than him. He doesn't remember Hoddesdon, though he was born there. He was a tot then. Of course Hoddesdon in those days was really very nice.
PR: It's good again now, I think, it's had a bit of a time in the doldrums but getting a bit of uplift.
MD: It was, um, the High Street used to look so nice ….
PR: Yes, nice wide street.
MD: They say about Mrs. Thatcher's father being a grocer. A grocer in those days, you couldn't compare them with …. could you?
PR: No, no. Miss Wigginton's father of course was a grocer. When Wiggintons was a grocers at Barbers in Hertford.
MD: That was quite different, and then there was Bates'. So it's all very well to keep harping on about, but it's ….
PR: Silly!
MD: It is. I read in the paper where it said that Mrs. Shirley Williams, when Mrs. Thatcher was serving in her father's grocer's shop, Mrs. Shirley Williams was sitting in her mother's drawing room.
(Laughter!)
PR: Ah, well!
MD: Mrs. Thatcher's policy's right, but doesn't ….
PR: It's hard at the moment, isn't it?
MD: Yes, but she's really wonderful. I can't quite make out Shirley Williams. My friend at Ware said, "I can't make out why she isn't a Conservative.”
PR: I think a lot of people felt that when she was our member here. She worked very hard for everybody, but she is a puzzle.
MD: Yes she is.
PR: Well, I'd better go down to the stoke hole.
MD: You've got to go again?
PR: Well, I'm just going now, I was on the way, I thought I'd tap on the door.
MD: Well, that's very kind of you.
PR: I hope to go unless there's a change in the weather, after church tomorrow.
MD: Are you going by car?
PR: Mmm, and I'll be away two or three days. There'll be plenty of food at that end.
MD: Your mother'll be pleased to see you.
PR: Well, hope so, yes.
MD: How do you get to your .... you've got to go in the church to get to this ….
PR: No, I can go round the back. It's a bit dark.
MD: Now, how are you going to raise that money?
PR: Well, we've got some. We've been …. we've got about half of what we require, saved up. We've put some away each year and then we might have to do a special fund raising thing I suppose.
MD: Is St. Andrew's a good living? Because they say that Hertingfordbury is a very good living.
PR: Yes it is. St. Andrew's isn't endowed like All Saints' and Hertingfordbury with extras, but it's, they're paid in a different sort of way now, and some of the old system's changed.
MD: Oh, I see!
PR: The next chap that comes to All Saints' won't get quite the same extras as Reggie Haw gets now. They say the money the church has is payable to Reggie, but it won't be to his successors.
MD: Do they get a house?
PR: That's rent and rate free so that's …. but at St. Andrew's we try to be self sufficient as it were and pay our own clergyman.
MD: You pay your own clergyman?
PR: Well, we're almost there now. We used not to. We feel we should, and while things are pretty healthy in the parish. It seems to be important that we do that and then poorer parishes who can't afford to can receive a little more income from the Church Commissioners.
MD: Have you got the Planned Giving?
PR: Yes.
MD: That's a good idea. Because if people don't go they give it.
PR: Well, yes. Evelyn Ambrose is an example, because she doesn't very often come but she always gives her envelopes. She came up on Christmas Eve and put a whole lot through the door and each week puts aside what she promised and so without that planned giving I don't suppose we should receive her contribution. She's got a little box of envelopes and every week she fills them up.
MD: I was pleased to see her go along to church but she says she can't ….(get along with the services).
PR: Well, she's got her roots there in a way, a base. It was good that she came again after Ronald died and um .... I think when people are a bit low, they need somewhere to turn to really, and the church. A lot of people aren't used to it, but she is. A lot of people would be put off. They are not familiar with the church.
MD: My brother was talking about St. Andrew's Church, about the atmosphere. At All Saints' there's something that's not ….
PR: Yes, it's very big and you can have a big crowd at All Saints' and not notice them. At St. Andrew's it's homely.
MD: You know, Mrs. Hebbes told me that Canon Rochford used to go to St. Andrew's Church and sit in there.
PR: Yes. he did.
MD: Of course, it's old, isn't it?
PR: Yes, it's small enough to be intimate and friendly and warm.
MD: Hertingfordbury's a lovely church. I remember going there when Lady Desborough …. because there were two people on the staff when Lady Desborough was ill. They got nurses, and these two people were very loyal, they'd been in their service, I suppose for years. And they were so pleased that Canon Rochford asked for Mrs Francis and me to go. Well, I wasn't sure of the way, but we kept going and walking and I think we were right. Then we came in sight of the house. They kept it perfect because I suppose they had women from the village, but they had scrubbed tables and lovely copper pans and they were really, those two people kept the place going as regards working there. But they used to like to go Taplow Court. That was the place, wasn't it?
PR: I don't know ....yes.
MD: So we visited these people and I remember how quickly they got tea for us, and oh, they were delighted. And then when Lady Desborough died we went to the funeral, and as soon as we turned round a corner, a policeman was there with white gloves on, made that village look important, and I can see Lady Bonham-Carter walking down the path, now. And Queen Mary was represented.
PR: Really?
MD: Yes, a gentleman, and Lady Salmond, her daughter, wasn't she?
PR: Yes, that's right, I think I've heard that name.
MD: I like that sort of thing.
PR: I went to a memorial service on a different scale, in the village the other day, just before Christmas. A lady called Mrs. Boulter. She was ninety-seven when she died just before Christmas. She'd been on the staff of Panshanger for a time and her husband worked on the estate. She lived in one of the old cottages belonging to the estate. She bought it some years ago and she died just quite recently. I used to take the children from school to visit her in a minibus from school sometimes. We'd go and see her suddenly one morning. We'd turn up and visit her and she'd welcome us all. The children always liked to hear her stories and what had happened on the estate.
MD: I think that's good to let the children know what the world was like because it's quite a different world now, isn't it.
PR: It's not ancient history is it? It's very recent really, but they wouldn't know.
MD: Lady Desborough, I've seen her walking in the town.
PR: Have you?
MD: Yes. Of course she was Lady-in-Waiting to Queen Mary, wasn't she.
PR: Yes, that's right.
MD: Well, then, when they had the sale, Mrs. Francis and I went over to look over the house. I could see the Chinese bedroom ….
PR: Oh, I say!
MD: 'Course it was valuable, but I couldn't have lived there.
PR: No, no! I must dash.
(some interference here masks the next statement which could be:
MD: She was chopping them down for some charity.)
MD: When I think of all the days gone by! Well, really, this is an historic town, isn't it? Queen Elizabeth the First used to walk up Queen's Road.
PR: Yes, that's how it got its name.
MD: And Gascoyne Way - that's after the Cecils.
PR: Yes! Oh, yes, there's a lot of …. have you read the History of Hertford?
MD: Err
The tape runs out
Finish