Transcript Detail
| Transcript Title | Green, Len - Commentary to slide show on buildings in Hertford |
| Interviewee | Len Green (LG) |
| Interviewer | Slide show commentary |
| Date | 14/10/1994 |
| Transcriber by | Jean Riddell Purkis |
Transcript
Hertford Oral History Group
Commentary to a slide show at Waterford Village Hall.
Recording no O1995.10
Interviewee: Len Green (LG)
Date: 14th October 1994
Venue: 63, North Road
Transcriber: Jean Riddell Purkis (Hertford Winemakers' Meeting)
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s notes
Len Green, 63 North Road, Hertford (now at 1 Nightingale Court, North Road, Hertford)
Len Green: Talking of Alfred Russel Wallace:
' …. in which I passed the most impressionable years of my life and where I first obtained a rudimentary acquaintance with my fellow creatures and with nature, is perhaps on the whole one of the most pleasantly situated county town in England, although as a boy I did not know this and did not appreciate the many advantages I enjoyed. Among its most delightful features are many numerous rivers arid streams in the immediate surrounding country affording pleasant walks through flowering meads, many picturesque old mills and a great variety of landscape.'
Further on in his biography, he says: 'Few small towns, it had less than 6,000 inhabitants, have a more agreeable public playground than the fine open space called Hartham with the level valley of the Lea stretching away to Ware on the east, the town itself just over the river to the-south, while on the north; just across the River Beane the steep slope covered with scattered fir trees and called The Warren, at the foot of which was a footpath leading to the picturesque little village church …. little village and old church, of Bengeo ... ' (that of course was St. Leonard's, because the other church wasn't built at that time). He goes on at some length about this, so I would point out to you that Hertford is rather unusual in having the rivers it has.
It's got the Lea, and three of the Lea's tributaries; the Mimram, the Beane and the Rib, so it is really .... and in addition to that there's that cheeky little brook that comes down Queens Hill, the Ashbourne Brook which had the nerve to flood the subway when they built Gascoyne Way on several occasions.
One point I should mention about the Wallaces, they lived in four different houses in Hertford. The second house was at Old Cross and by its description I think it must be number 23, Old Cross, where there's now the shop Pharaohs, that house there (slide) because it has at the south end a gable with just one window in it and when they lived there, there was a grapevine on that wall, and Alfred's father, who, he never did a real job in all his life, but he trained for the law, but he never practised and he did a little bit of teaching, looked after a library and so on. But he was very interested in growing things and Alfred records that he made wine from the thinnings of that vine, so if you've got records going back to the 1830s, he'll be on the list of the winemakers of Hertford!
Right, I think we can have the lights out now. Oh, I'm-sorry. I shall have to put the, can you switch the light on, Cedric, it's at the back. It's a full moon and a half moon, the full moon, please.
Cedric: This one.
Len Green: No, this side, at the back. Sorry about that. Em, 1927, 26, 27. It's not very sharp is it. Sorry about this. Can someone focus a little bit for me? I've got this thing on (the mic). I can't. Could you, try again? That's better, thank you.
Well, we'll start with looking at some of these waterways (slide), if I go on one (slide) so you can see it today. You know where it is, don't you? You probably recognised it anyway. It's down by the Old Barge Inn and on the water, there is the Lea Navigation Canal, and on it is one of the old barges which used to come up from the Thames bringing goods into Hertford.
At the time when Wallace was living in the town all the heavy stuff came into the town by water, of course, and this canal was cut in the 18th century to bring goods into Hertford and to take goods like malt out to London. It was originally the millstream for the Priory Mill which later became the Dicker Mill and moved down a little bit below the Priory. And that was widened to make the canal. If we look the other way (slide) looking backwards, we can see, there's the bridge at the bottom of Bull Plain and just through that bridge is the point where the canal leaves the river and it was through there that the goods were taken round to the other side of Folly Island. The island formed through the River Lea and the canal and there were little docks to receive it. It was like a little island port in those days. That's where most of the goods came in. You can see from the Lombard House there, Hertford Club, that they probably lost some of the building when the canal was cut. Cut off short there. I don't know whether there was any more building there. It looks a bit as though it has been cut off.
The Andrews Brothers, they were builders, they had stuff brought into that barque on Folly Island. They decided it would be far better to make a place for receiving timber and so on, a little further down the canal and you'll probably recognise this spot. It's now where the marina is, it's called the Wide Water (slide)
And this was owned in the first case by the Andrews Brothers, later it was Ewen and Tomlinson and finally Jewson's. So this was where a lot of timber came into Hertford. You can tell it's after 1905 because you can see the church tower, which wasn't finished until 1905 (All Saints'). Further down, there is the lock (slide) and this is the essentially part of the navigation canal really, because what it does is to translate the gradual drop of a natural river into one big drop, so you've got two level bits instead of a gradual slope which meant that the water could be kept deep enough for boats to sail in it.
So this is Hertford Lock, which is an important part of the navigation stream. And in the distance you can see the Ware Park Mill. I'll show you four other mills of Hertford. There were six watermills in the town in the last century and this is Ware Park Mill, another picture of it here (slide). It was worked by the River Rib which comes down a steep slope here and really, it's strange because this was the last mill in Hertford to be made, but it's the one that's in the most natural position for a mill really, because they didn't have to make a millstream. The river just came over the top, and it was the only overshot mill in the town. In other words, the water came over the top of the mill to drive it. You can see that there were maltings there also, in the distance. Malting was very much an industry of Hertford in those days.
This is another of the mills (slide) the Dicker Mill, originally the Priory Mill. The Ware Park Mill as far as I know, just ground flour for the whole of its life, eventually was owned by French's of Ware. The Dicker Mill was built probably as a flour mill but for most of the latter part of its life they went on, I think, to the 1920s, it was an oil mill. It was grinding the linseed to make linseed oil and what was left after the oil was extracted from the seed was pulverised into cow cake for feeding cattle. And this was Dicker Mill and you can see another barge outside the mill there.
In the area of Dicker Mill there were various other factories. Later on the electricity generating station was built quite close to it, and the gramophone factory and over the other side of the canal was the Gas Works, sort of industrial area of the town.
If we go to the other end of the town. This is the Molewood Mill (slide). It's no longer there, of course, but the miller's house is still there. This ground corn, and it was mentioned in the Doomsday Book and it was closed about the end of the last century when the Borough took it over to make a pumping station to pump water up to the big reservoir in Bengeo and Bengeo Water Tower.
This is the Horns Mill (slide), again in the Doomsday Book. It had a varied life. It ground corn, at one time. It ground bones for fertiliser and it ground oil and about the middle of the last century it devoted itself entirely to the grinding of linseed for oil and making cow cake. Wallace in his autobiography describes this mill and the town mill in detail. He remembers coming down and looking through the window of this mill and seeing the stones shining with oil which had been taken from the linseed and also hearing this thud as what was left from the linseed was put into canvas bags and it was banged with hammers to drive out the rest of the oil. I've heard it said that people in Hertford in the last century could foretell the weather as to which they could hear most clearly, Hornsmill or Dicker Mill, because that told them which way the wind was.
The other two mills, I haven't got pictures of them here tonight, but of course there's Sele Mill which is on the Beane, and the Molewood Mill's on the Beane and Sele Mill was another one in the Doomsday Book. At one time it was a paper mill. You've seen the tablet on the wall which records it was the first paper mill of England. But it didn't last as a paper mill very long, but it lasted as a corn mill for a long time. In fact, it's only a few years ago it stopped grinding corn. The town mill was the other one, near where the Castle Hall is now, and every time I go down by the river and look at all that water coming out. All that power going to waste that used to be used to drive the town mill. That was in the Doomsday Book and that remained a corn mill throughout.
All these mills later on supplemented their water power, steam power. So they didn't remain just water mills, all the time.
This one, of course, Horns Mill was taken over by the leather company, by Webb's, who dressed leather there and they developed a glove making industry. They made very good gloves, handmade gloves which were excellent quality. Now it's all gone and a housing estate's built on the site. And of course the town mill, where the Castle Hall is now, that was working, I think, before the second world war to some extent and then at the end of the second world war it was damaged by the doodle bug, that came down on Mill Bridge.
So, if we return to where we started, namely the Lea Navigation Canal. You heard all the good news. What a lovely place it was all these mills and so on.
We now come rather to the bad news, because we see that it was not all lovely meads and mills fine walks by the river. It was pretty scruffy in some places. The population was concentrated in very small area, all the main streets had courts and alleys leading off them. People lived there in some degree of squalor. This is looking across (slide). Again this, don't know the date of this, but think it's maybe after the first world war, don't know. Looking across at Bircherley Green and I think the street through there was City Street or City Road and Bircherley Green was a maze of little streets. Pretty miserable streets they were too.
And then a picture (slide) looking across again and I think this could be in the 1920s. I don't quite know when it was all demolished, but it was changed when I came here in 1933.
This is again looking across the canal at the end of Bircherley Green (slide). This building right at the end is the old Ragged School which you'll see again in a moment. And next to it that way is the Tallow House and all this was cleared, I think in the 1920s, and converted into a waste of concrete.
You probably remember the car park there and bus station which were just one stretch of concrete, not the place to stand in an east wind.
If we go round to Bircherley Green there is the Ragged School (slide). Ragged Schools were established in all parts of the country for the children whose parents couldn't afford to pay the few pence that schools charged then and they were run as charitable institutions. The Ragged School in Hertford started in a disused chapel in Railway Street and then in the 1850s William Pollard, who was the draper who kept the shop now called Graveson's, he provided the money for this Ragged School now on Bircherley Green. It remained as a Ragged School, I think it was opened about 1859, until 1877 by which time of course various education acts had been passed and the need for such a school was less. It then became a mission room and then in the 1920s it was sold to the Salvation Army and it was a Salvation Army Citadel until they built the new citadel in Baker Street. And it remained, it was the workmen's canteen I think when they did all the work for the new shopping precinct. There was a move to keep it there but it was demolished. I seem to remember there was a promise that there would be a tablet put up, but the tablet never has been put up on the flats occupying the spot where it used to be.
This is the Tallow House (slide), you know from its name, where candles were made. It gives you an idea of houses that existed then. You can see the chimney pots between and those are on Folly Island.
This next picture was taken a few years ago (slide). You can see the chimney pots there. That little cafe on the corner has gone, of course, and the Ragged School was just off picture on the right. Another picture in the Green (slide). These houses were demolished just before the First World War. The result of all this crowding together of people was that in 1849 there was a cholera outbreak in Hertford. It wasn't just in Hertford. It was all over the country really, but it struck Hertford.
When it occurred the Borough Sanitary Committee conducted a survey of the courts, yards and alleys in the town. All the main streets had these courts leading off them because the population at the time was concentrated into a very small area. There was no point in building houses too far out, because people couldn't come in to the shops and so on. So the concentration was pretty dense.
I can give you details that the Sanitary Committee found: there were 43 courts, yards and alleys in the town; 294 cottages in those and only 28 had a back door. The rest of them just had a front door. And the population was 1,310. The number of closets was 102 and of those 63 were over cesspits, with open cesspits and 4 open tubs on wheels, whatever that might be! And the number of pumps and wells for the cottages was 19.
A bit of mental arithmetic will tell you that the population per cottage was about 4.5, which doesn't seem too bad. Each closet had to serve 13 people. There must have been an amount of queuing (and pushing too!) and each pump or well served 69 people. So if you weren't queuing for one thing you were queuing for the other!
Where did I put my other thing? That's it. No it isn't. Where's that clip??
This house is in one of the courts (slide) This is Hayden's Court. It remained, I think, into the 20s. One of the boys I taught when I first came to Hertford. I was speaking to him not long ago. He's on that picture and as far as I know, it was in Railway Street, close to the Friends' Meeting House, just about where the back of the old Gas Company was. Can someone confirm that?
Transcribers note: Confirmed by Jean
No!
Len Green: Well, I think that's where it was. And you can see they were pretty poor and they couldn't move anyone out and they couldn't start the building in fact. The moving out of town didn't come until after the First World War, but at least they could do a little better in the way of sewerage. Not only was it easy for disease to be transmitted, it was transmitted through the water in a lot of cases, because the cess pits and the water supplies got mixed up.
(Groans from audience.)
Len Green: Well, I'm sorry, I know it's revolting, but it's the sort of thing that happened, you see. One interesting little piece of information I got from the Mercury. It was 1857, it says 5 skeletons had been dug up during the week, in the cutting of the new sewer opposite Mr. Pollard's in the Market Place. That's Mr. Pollard, who had Graveson's. As there were no traces of coffins or coffin nails near the spot, it may perhaps be assumed that the skeletons are those of criminals executed in the market place and buried at the foot of the gallows. Formerly, a market house, of comparatively small dimensions stood on the site, and there was a large open space opposite Mr. Pollard's. The gaol was close by on the spot on which the town hall now stands.
A phrenologist would say that the conformation of at least 2 of the skulls exhumed supplied ample evidence that the men were of savage and criminal character. They had a lot of belief in phrenologists then!
There was a move in the town to improve accommodation for what was known as the 'labouring classes.' In fact it was a national movement and in 1851 the Great Exhibition was held. The association which was involved with this applied to exhibit cottages which they designed in the exhibition. They were refused permission, but the Prince Consort, who was their patron, found space for them to build cottages in one of the, cavalry barracks and he actually paid for the expense of their erection. In Hertford, there was a building company, Baron Dimsdale and Abel Smith were two of the leading lights in it, and Baron Dimsdale owned a house, you all recognise this, I take it. He owned a house and he donated the land. This house was pulled down and these cottages (slide) were built on the spot. Now, they were the same design as the ones built in London and were designed by Henry Roberts who was an architect born in America of British parents and spend most of his life in England.
These cottages, this is four flats, of course, two up and two down, and they were built to specification. They had to have a living room and a scullery and three bedrooms, one for the parents, one for the girls and one for the boys, and each bedroom had to have its own door. No bedroom was reached by going through another bedroom because this was a deterrent to incest, which I'm afraid is nothing new. The scullery was fitted with a sink, a plate rack arid a coal bin. There was a WC and there was a tank to hold 160 gallons of water. These cottages were an exact copy of the ones in London except that the ones in London had a flat roof and they had the sense here not to have a flat roof so they had a sloping roof so the rain doesn't come in. So, that's the history of, they're called Prince Albert Cottages. They were never in the Great Exhibition but they were at the time of the Great Exhibition in the cavalry barracks.
Now back to Railway Street. This is as it was and not all that long ago. It was like this that building on the extreme left (slide). It's not all that space of time that that went, and that's the exit from Bircherley Green, of course, and there were these shops, the blacksmith this end. I think that was there until after the Second World War. And there are various other shops there. Now it's changed character completely.
This is Youngs' Brewery (slide) on the extreme right. That bit of building jutting out, that' s where the Earl Haig public house is now. That's South Street. This brewery was in operation until about 1897. The brewer's house was that big house still on Ware Rd. next to the Sportsman. That big house was the brewer's house and there was an alley which led round and came out in Fore Street. That was taken down at the end of the last century and the ground was taken over by Christ's Hospital. They took over the big house as well, took down the brewery and built the dormitory buildings there but the little bit of wall you can see with the cellar openings is still there Why? Whether there's anything down in in those cellars, I don't know. This is quite a recent picture of it (slide) That's not the Christ's Hospital blocks. Those are the flats which were put up in their place. You can see that old wall of the brewery is still there with the cellar openings.
If we go to this end of South Street (slide).That corner is where the Earl Haig is now, and you can see one of the crossings, in front of those two boys is a crossing. Stone sets were put in the road so that people could cross and avoid the mud, dust and so on and they were all over the town, and when they were finally taken up, a lot of the stone setts were used at the top of Port Hill to build the wall and make the footpath high up. I don't know why that blank patch is there. No idea! I've seen a picture without it, so there were no rude words written there or anything like that.
And that's looking down South Street from Fore Street (slide).I said the houses in the courts and alleys were pretty rough, but even those on the main streets weren't all that better, were they? Housing was not very good.
Coming to Fore Street now and this (slide) is an engraving which was dated about 1828 showing Fore street as it was. All the markets were held in the main street, which didn't improve matters, as you can imagine. Anyway, this building on the extreme right is the Cross Keys Inn which we will see again. That's where Thresher's is now next door was the lock-up, where the prisoners were held. And then there were shops and, of course, in the middle there that building where the TSB is now, they've put windows in very much like those windows. And the Shire Hall has been put back to something like it is here because they, in the intervening years, built a caretaker's flat on the top and did away with that big window and made a lot of changes which didn't improve the Shire Hall. It's now been re-established as it was when this engraving was made.
And that's another one (slide) that was an engraving made for Turnor's History published in 1830, and on the left there is the Duncombe Arms. Now the Dimsdale Arms, I believe it's closing isn't it, anyway, the Duncombe Arms· and further down the Salisbury Arms and those two inns were the headquarters of the two warring parties in the notorious 1832 Election in Hertford.
Duncombe was the Whig candidate. Well, there was another Whig as well. And he had this as his HQ and the Tory HQ was at the Salisbury Arms. It was originally The Bell as you know, and it was bought by the Marquis of Salisbury. I don't know if any of you are familiar with this (holds up a book) it's a romance! But it's called 'For All Good Men' and it's by Joan Hessayon whose husband is the man at Pbi. He's written all the gardening books. And it's about the 1832 Election in Hertford.
As I say, it's a romance, so I suppose the ladies will like it, I don't know! But anyway, I see she's done a fair amount of research and the picture of the town painted in that book is quite interesting arid the way the election was run, and some of the parts of the town which were in a pretty poor state.
Coming back now to the end of Fore Street (slide). This is the west end of Fore Street where the War Memorial now is. You can recognise the buildings across the road. You can see them just the same and you can see some of the buildings which were taken away to make room for the War Memorial' in 1919.
I don't quite know what was going on here (slide). They were waiting for someone, obviously someone was visiting Hertford. They may have just been passing through on their way to BaIls Park or something. In those days any little bit of excitement was made the most of. In 1874 visit of Prince of Wales to Panshanger?
If we go round the other side, this is again, on the left the buildings where the War Memorial now is, you can look through to where the Mercury building, Stephen Austin's was. The third building in on the right is the Blackbirds Inn and I don't know when this was taken but it must have been before 1920s. Before they built the War Memorial and motor traffic hadn't really taken over and you can see what narrow streets there were in the middle of the town
Another view of (slide) This is looking from the Fore Street end. There's Castle Street down that way. Over there was Simson's the printers which is now where the Job Centre is and all those buildings in the middle were demolished. The site was given to the town by Sir Arthur Pearson. He was mayor of Hertford and he lived at Brickendonbury. There's a Pearsons Avenue up there, isn't there. He presented the ground and the people who lived in that part or had shops in that part had to find somewhere else. It took a little time for them all to go.
There's Fore Street. I don't know the date. All I can tell you is that it's before 1890 because there's no Market Street,. There's no Post Office and they date from that sort of time. You can see the state of the road. I think this was probably a Sunday morning. I don't know, but you can see one of the crossings in the distance I was talking about and these iron frameworks here were for hoisting the sunblind across. All the cattle markets were held in Fore Street. In 1851 the cattle market was opened behind the Ram Inn. There was an entrance there and they built the cattle market for sheep, pigs, goats etc. but not for horned cattle, so the cows etc. were still brought into Fore Street. I don't know just when they accommodated the cows back there, but you can see this is a long time after 1890. Market Street is there (slide) and the Post Office is there, probably wasn't until this century. All the other animals by that time were marketed at the back of the Ram Inn. That stayed as the market until it was necessary to move it, when Gascoyne Way was mooted.
This is 1903 (slide). The start of all the trouble! Hertford was a peaceful town before this happened! There's quite an amusing account of this in one of Cyril Heath's books. Apparently it was organised by a mayor of Hertford who was a keen motorist and the chief constable was a man for horses. He didn't believe in these stinking things and he was taken for a ride up Balls Hill and shown that these machines could stop. He was afraid they couldn't stop when necessary. Anyway, 1903.
1951 (slide). That's a picture I took in 1951 when we did a little exhibition of 'Then and Now' and the police borrowed this for a road safety exhibition and they've painted out all the numbers and made a list of all the things people were doing wrong!
Now, the old Corn Exchange (slide).This was built I think in the 1840s. The new one was 1859 and you can see this wooden screen thing. There was no Market Street then. There was just a little alleyway down there. After the new Corn Exchange was built, you can see the corner of it there (slide), these two shops had to be taken down to make way for Market Street.
There was a man named Beard who had a men's outfitters' shop and a Mr. Savage who had a coopers' and basket makers' shop and their shops were taken down for Market Street to be made
and cottages, pretty rough cottages at the back. Not only for Market Street but for the covered Market that was built at the back of the Corn Exchange. Slight change (slide) since those two were taken down. After I came to Hertford in about the middle 1930s they took another building down on the corner - it was the Thistledo Cafe - to make a space for the buses to stop, because this end of Market Street is wider than the bottom end and they achieved that by taking one more shop down around 1936.
There is the Crossed Keys Inn (slide). An old building built round a middle chimney. It had cellars extending under the Corn Exchange. These cellars remained until quite recently. I think they stayed until the last change to the Corn Exchange when they put those shops in. The wine shop next door had to build new cellars because they lost the ones that were under the Corn Exchange. There is the Corn Exchange (slide) the wine merchants, Willson's on this side and Market Street. The two lamps are gone, of course, and the figures on the top of the Corn Exchange. They were taken down in the Second World War because of the danger of them falling onto people in the case of bombing. Willson's wine shop was in those days, as I remember it, a select sort of wine shop. You didn't go in and help yourself. You stated your requirement and someone reached high and brought back a bottle, with loving care! That's very much as it is now (slide).
Across the road now (slide) the building on the end is what was the Westminster Bank, now the National Westminster since it joined with the National Provincial and that building, there is the Post Office as it was before about 1890. Just down the road, the building on the extreme right is the Dimsdale Arms. Next door to that was the Talbot Arms and there were some shops including Mr Savage, cooper and basket maker. He had two shops and he seemed to lose them in a short time. I've never decided whether he was very smart or very unfortunate. Whether he made a lot of money or whether he was unlucky. Anyway this was the site of the Chequer Inn in Fore Street end at the back was the Chequer Yard and it was left to Hertford Poor's Estate, a local charity which was founded when the Kings Mead was bought from Charles I for £100 to provide for the poor and that was the start of Hertford Poor's Estate. This was left to them and in the 19th Century. It was leased to the Marquis of Salisbury who let out the property behind and didn't do very much else about it. It was one of the worst areas affected by the cholera. At the back, these are the cottages at the back. It was also called Paradise Court. I think because it was a short cut there!
A number of people died here, talking of the cholera attack, between 1 and 2% of the population died. It doesn't sound very many but if you put that in terms of the present population of Hertford, it would mean over 300 people so you can understand that it was a matter of some importance. Mr. Savage, the last despairing show, he's got one of his baskets on show there and some of the raw materials here and this was sold, at least it was taken by the Hertford Poor's Estate. They thought they would make more money out of it if they built a Post Office.
If you look at the bottom of this picture you'll see there's a stone low down on the Post Office. They built the Post Office and leased it to the government arid it turned out to be quite profitable and after 21 years they sold it to the government for more than they paid to have it built and, of course, the charity, Hertford Poor's Estate still goes on.
In a few weeks' time you will see notices asking people who wish to take advantage of the Grass Money to make application and you have to live in the borough as it was in 1688. I think I'm just outside! And you mustn't have an income of more than so much. If you satisfy those conditions you can apply & if you're lucky you get a grant before Christmas which depends on your age. It's more for older people. It's not for any young people, of course, but the older you are the more you get.
Coming back now, this is Fore Street in the 1920s (slide) Prudential Insurance Co that's where the Post Office was and then you can see the Post Office and, of course, that was the main entrance when it was built and that remained as the main entrance until well after the Second World War. There was a little public office at the front; the sorting office was at the back and the telephone exchange was upstairs. They built a new telephone exchange and a new sorting office and then changed it to its present position where you got a much bigger public office which is entered at the side.
There's the Bungeo, the Bengeo bus, not the Bungeo! And Wren's bread cart and that's not all that long ago that ceased to go round the town. I think perhaps my sense of time has gone awry! Just before we leave Fore Street just to look at some of the bargains.
Now, Neale's Bon Marché was the shop on the corner opposite the Shire Hall which has been a lot of things since (slide of advert) It was a furniture shop for some time, then it was a shoe shop. I'm not sure what it is now, a charity shop? I remember it as a wonderful shop. The cashier sat in a kind of pulpit in the middle of the shop, and when you bought something, your bill and the money you gave was put in a little wooden cup hitched to a 'thing' and the lever was pulled and it shot across the wire to the cashier sitting in the middle who put any change arid your receipt and back it came. You can see the prices there:
Boys' Sailor Suits, you can work out 2/11d in modern money can you?
(Laughter)
well, say 3/-d ....15p, yes, right up to 11/6d – 52½p. I think.
Voice: No, Len, 62½p!
Len Green: Well there you are. But when you think what the wages were, it comes into a reasonable focus. And across the road was Bates Brothers.
These 2 pictures are taken from a Hertford Guide of about 1904. They decided to advertise that they would deliver to places in the district. They'd go out as far as Hatfield on one side and Hoddesdon on the other, and Watton-at-Stone, and the days of delivery are given at the bottom there and they say if you sent an order in to be received by 1st post on the day of delivery they would deliver it that day. On the other side, the cost of living: Irish and Scotch whisky: Highland Malt 5 years old 3/6d a bottle; 42/-d per doz; 6 years 4/-d a bottle.
Again you have to think of wages.
And the beer reputed pints 2/6d, imperial pints 2/4d and 2/6d.
Anyway the prices, you had to again take into account what people earned then.
Now, it's five past nine, there are a few slides left. I don't want to upset the future programme. Would you like me to stop now?
Voices: No, go on!
Len Green: This is the Market Place as it was (slide) and more or less as it is now. But for some years of course, the market wasn't held here. It was held in the open market on Bircherley Green.
There's one interesting little story here, isn't there, Bruce?
Bruce: That's right, yes!
Len Green: That flag, it's backwards, that says, 'Redheads from Peterborough.' That was a butcher's stall and Bruce's grandfather used to come from Peterborough to sell meat in Hertford. Eventually he got fed up with this and he set up shop in Hertford. I won't go into all the details now, it's in my book anyway!
(Laughter)
Len Green: it's prior to 1876, that picture. Well, that was the start of Johnson's which unfortunately is no more. This is Thomas Rowlandson's picture of Hertford Market which was obtained for Hertford (slide) and it's in the museum. On the extreme left is the corner of Graveson's. On the extreme right is the White Hart Hotel and that big building in the middle was there until the 1920s. It was a number of things. There was at least one pub there. The Education Office was there. Quelch and Brown's Cycle Shop was there apparently. I don't remember any of these, of course, but that was taken away and Salisbury Square made where it was. And there it is before the more modern improvements were started (slide). This is that building on the left, the one that was out in the middle there; that's Maidenhead Street down there; you can see Graveson's there and that was a house attached to the shop and that was taken down and Graveson's extended round the corner. You can see the state of the road. You can see one of the little crossings on the corner.
Honey Lane (slide); two pubs, the Highland Chief; and The Coffee Pot; The Old Coffee House.
The town was full of pubs and over in Maidenhead Street you can see Hilton's shoe shop. There's the other end of Honey Lane (slide) and the Old Coffee House and those lovely carved posts. They're in the museum.
Hertford's first cinema opened in 1910, The People's Theatre, Electric Theatre. And if you look in the top right hand corner you can see a fret on a window sill end there's the same fret there where Boots used to be and where Hinds the jewellers' is now. It was opened in 1910 and closed in 1914. The one in Market Street was opened just after this one and that went on 'til after the Second World War.
Further down Maidenhead St. you can see the Maidenhead Inn (slide) that's where Woolworth's is now. It's so interesting to see this old scaffolding. We've got steel scaffolding now. It's wooden poles in barrels of sand! And in case you wonder what that is, it's apparently Mrs. Doyle's Corset Warehouse!
(Laughter)
Transcribed January 1996.
Recorded at The Dell, Cecil Road, Hertford, on Wednesday April 13th,
Len Green's slides of old Hertford with Len giving the commentary.
A selection of 50 slides. Most bear a code e.g. R1: historic view. Where this is followed by a modern view, the code is repeated and followed by the year of the recent slide e.g. R1 (83).
1. Advertisement for Elsden - photographers in Hertford since 1857. No code.
2. Old Folly Bridge over Lee Navigation Canal with sailing barge. Ri.
3. Modern view of same. R1 (83)
4. Looking towards Folly Bridge from tow path. H2.
5· 'Wide Water' - wharf used for unloading timber. Site present marina. R3·
6. Hertford Lock. R7.
7. Ware Park Mill. R8.
8. Bircherley Green - looking from The Barge into The Green, across Lee Navigation. Rl8.
9. Similar to above, but including Ragged School and Tallow House. No code but shown on p.63 of Len's book 'Hertford's Past in Pictures'.
l0. Closer view of Tallow House. B2. (83)
11. Cafe on Tallow House site. B2 (83)
12. Ragged School. B1.
13. Houses off Green Street, Bircherley Green. No code.
14. Back street, now Railway Street. B3.
15. Bircherley Court now on site of above. B3 (86).
16. Hayden's Court - site in region of Friends' Meeting House. No code.
17. Back street/corner South Street: view of Youngs' Brewery. B6.
18. Modern view of '17' showing flats. B6 (87).
19. Back Street/South Street corner showing opposite old crossing. B5.
20. End of South Street from Fore Street with manure in road. B4.
21. Modern view of above now Glen Insurance. B4 (86).
22. Engraving of Fore street showing Lock Up c. 1823. F4.
23. Engraving of Fore street for Turner, 1830. F5.
24. Fore street/Parliament Square junction showing middle buildings. F1.
25. Modern view of above. F1 (83).
26. Fore Street from Shire Hall, before 1890. F9.
27. Fore Street with addition of Market Street; present P.D. Built. FIO.
28. Fore Street 1903. Motor Rally with Mayor Cllr. Murchison. F9 (03).
29. Fore Street from Shire Hall in 1951. F9 (51),
30. Original Corn Exchange in 1840s. F14.
31. Two shops next to Corn Exchange which were demolished for Market Street. F13. (Savage and Beards' c.1890)
32. Present day Market Street. F13 (85)
33. Cross Keys nub next to Corn Exchange. F17.
34. Replacement building on above site. F15.
35. Opposite above & beside present National West Bank was old Post Office. F12.
36. Shops where Chequer Inn used to be (Hertford Poor Estate). F6.
37. Behind Chequer Inn - a yard called Paradise Court. G15.
3R. Present P.O. About 1927 shows Bengeo bus and Wren's bread cart. F11.
39. Advertisement for Neale & Sons, Outfitters (Neales' Bon Marché 1905. No code.
40. Advertisement for Bates' the grocers in the 'Egyptian' style building. No code.
41. Heat stall in Market Place run by Redheads. M6.
42. Rowlandson's painting of Market in 1800. No code.
43. Middle building in Salisbury Square which housed "The Vine' etc. M7.
44. Modern view of above. M7 (83).
45. Corner of Maidenhead Street before Graveson's present design. M5·
46. Honey Lane facing towards Maidenhead Street. M3.
47. Honey Lane from Maidenhead Street. M4.
48. Maidenhead Street showing People's Electric Theatre (1910-1914). M1.
49. Modern view of above showing Hind's the Jewellers. H1 (86)
50. Maidenhead Street showing scaffolding (wooden) in barrels of sand. M2.