Interviewed by Grace Eve (GE), Eve Sangster (ES)
Date: 29/09/1993
Transcribed by Eve Sangster
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no: O1993.9
Interviewee: Mrs Eva Thresher (ET)
Date: 29th September 1993
Venue: 13 Goddards Close, Little Berkhampstead
Interviewers: Grace Eve (GE), Eve Sangster (ES)
Transcriber: Eve Sangster
Typed by: Eve Sangster
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s notes
GE: This is Grace Eve speaking and I'm in Little Berkhampstead in the house of Joan Line (JL) with her mother Mrs. Thresher who had her 92nd birthday this summer and, did I say Eve's here too?
ET: (laughing) I'm a 100, dear, not 92.
(Much confusion!)
ES: It's just stage fright.
GE: You were born in 1892, weren't you?
ET: 1893, dear.
GE: And you were born at Stockings Farm, yes.
ET: And there I stayed until I married and went to live at Rose Cottage.
GE: …. and how many brothers was it you had?
ET: Four brothers living, dear. Four brothers. The fifth brother died when he was 15 months old.
GE: Yes. Are any of them still alive, your brothers?
ET: No, I'm sorry to say. No. I've only got one nephew alive now. I'm sorry, I've got two, isn't it?
GE: And great-nephews, I should think.
JL: Yes, she's got three nephews. You've got John, Ron, oh no, Joe's gone now. Only two now and the others are great nephews.
GE: Yes, and your father rented the farm from Squire Baker.
ET: Squire Baker. He used to live at Bayfordbury.
GE: Yes, that's right. Your father, where was his home? Where did he come from?
ET: Epping Green. You know the little farm at the corner, as you turn round to go to Bayford, that's where my dad was born. And he lived there 'til he married. Then he went to live at Stockings Farm.
Mother, she was born at Pope's Farm; that's in between Essendon and Hatfield.
JL: Essendon West End!
GE: Oh yes. And what did your father have? Did he have …. he had cows, didn't he, cattle? And did you have pigs and things? And chickens, of course.
ET: Yes, and turkeys.
GE: Everything. Well, there was that pond, wasn't there?
ES: Where is Stockings Farm, actually?
GE: Well, I'll take you down. It's in Stockings Lane. I'll have to take you to see it. It doesn't look like Stockings Farm any more. I took Eve to see Rose Cottage just now. I had to explain it didn't look like that when you were there. But Mrs. Brooks told me - who's your sister-in-law, isn't she? - that you had to go down to the bottom of the lane to get water from the river. Is that true?
ET: Yes, for the cattle. In summer time, you used to have to go down there to get water for the cattle. But we had a big well at the bottom of the back yard and poor Dad used to have to wind a great big wooden wheel to get a bucket of water up for the house, for drinking water.
GE: Oh, that was the well. That was drinking water for the house. So there was no water. There wasn't even a tap, was there?
JL: Oh no, not in those days. There was a tap, towards the end, when they condemned, done away with, all the pumps and wells.
(They discuss the water supply in the village.)
ES: Did you have to help on the farm when you were a child?
ET: Help? Rather!
ES: What were your jobs?
ET: Anything, my dear. Anything that come along. Used to go round ?????? the summertime when we were hay-making. I used to have to go out about half past six in the morning with me two brothers and a man to winnow the hay, turn the grass over with a rake, a 20-acre field,.????? walk round there.
GE: It was very steep, one of those fields, too, weren't they?
ET: Pardon?
GE: They're steep fields. There is a very steep field there, isn't there, down to the valley? Used to be full of cowslips, I remember.
ET: Yes.
JL: Yes. Used to make cowslip wine.
GE: Then you helped with the poultry, too, I expect, did you?
ET: Oh yes. And feed the calves.
GE: Yes. Did you milk?
ET: Yes!
ES: So did you have any spare time for playing.
ET: Very little. I wasn't allowed to come up the village to play with the other children.
ES: Why was that?
ET: I don't know.
GE: No, well, it was quite a long walk, wasn't it?
ET: I used to have one great friend; she lived just across the hills in a house called Little Stockings.
GE: Was there a school in the village? You came up to the school, didn't you?
ET: Yes.
GE: And when did you leave? How long were you there? 'Til you were twelve?
ET: What, the school? Fourteen.
GE: And then when did you get married?
ET: In 1915 …. In the first war. My husband went through the 1914 war. There he is, over there, (points to a photograph.) Show the lady.
GE: And in the 1914 war, what was it like in the village? Did a lot of men go – Did your husband have to go the war?
JL: That's him in uniform there.
ET: He went the week after we were married, dear …. a week, just a week after we were married …. that was his wish, that we could get married before he went away.
GE: So you were in Rose Cottage on your own, were you?
ET: No, I lived at home with Mum and Dad until my husband came back from the war and we lived down there for 12 months, then home at Stockings, then my brother Will. I was expecting her, (points to Joan), my brother Will said if I didn't move away he would. He didn't want no squalling kid down there (laughs).
GE: But did they own Rose Cottage?
ET: My Dad did.
GE: Oh yes. That was lucky, wasn't it?
ET: It was lucky. My great-great-Uncle built Rose Cottage
GE: Oh! Oh, I see. It's an old cottage, isn't it? Or it was.
ET: Very old!
GE: Very old! A very pretty cottage. A very nice cottage.
ET: Very nice!
ES: How did you meet your husband?
ET: In church! He used to sing in the choir, in Berkhampstead choir. And he had beautiful curly hair. It was the curly hair, I think.
ES: And how old were you when you first met him?
ET: 19 and I was married when I was 22.
(She tells of her marriage in Berkhampstead Church by the rector, Mr. Day, and of being the first baby christened in the church by the Rev. George Gibson; of her husband's return from the war and his employment as a gardener at The Manor House; of his origins in Somerset; of his working for Col. Hanbury at The Manor House and of the six gardeners employed there, and of the thatched cottage being used as a chapel by Miss Charlotte Hanbury. Eva remembers milking the cow kept at Rose Cottage, the pigs, turkeys and chickens. She speaks of the village as 'one big happy family' and the importance of the school; of George Mason, the baker at the village shop; of Mrs. Newman, who kept the post office and the second shop at the top of The Limes' garden; of the pond where the garage now is and where her father used to bring her a hot dinner every midday when she came out of school; of her not eating this dinner; of children walking from Howe Green, Epping Green and Water Hall to school; of three adults teaching 83 pupils in two rooms; of the severity of the head teacher and her use of the cane; of the knitting and needlework lessons; of' the rector's daily visits to take morning assembly and of learning the catechism.
ES: …. do you remember anything about Queen Victoria?
ET: Oh yes. I remember her Jubilee.
ES: So, what can you remember about her and what sort of festivities went on locally?
ET: Well, we had a big festivity in the village. We had a huge bonfire in the cricket field.
ES: Did you have a street party?
ET: Yes, we had a lovely tea party?
ES: And where was that held?
ET: In the village hall …. I can just remember the village hall being built. The village hall was built really – Mr. Bosanquet and Mr. Johnson - Johnson used to live in The Limes! Well, he lived there and Mr. Bosanquet had the village hall built to aggravate him. (Laughs!)
(Confused talk of the Bosanquets in Culver Wood, Pond (???) Field; Little Culver Wood. Eva speaks of everyone going to church when Queen Victoria died; of how nearly every home had a picture of the Queen; of the shock when her death was announced and of the sports day in the cricket field to celebrate the Coronation.)
ET: I can always remember my Dad sitting looking at his newspaper. He used to look up and he used to tell me when I went out of an evening, "You've got to be in this house by 7 o'clock and
not a minute later." And I can see him now, sitting at the end of the table and he used to look up, look at the clock, "I thought I told you 7 o'clock. It's ten past seven. Don't you dare come in at this time again. You go straight up to bed. "
GE: And where had you been when you came in at the wicked hour of ten past seven?
ET: Choir practice.
GE: That was rather hard, wasn't it?
ET: Oh, but that's where you met your husband, so it wasn't wasted time.
GE: And did you go down that dark lane all by yourself? It's quite a long way down there, and very muddy, isn't it? The old land went to the right, didn't it, by that pond, then up on to the main road, and your father made the bit from the farm up to the Rochford's farm …. It made a short cut, didn't it? Yes, it must have made quite a difference. So when you ran back in the dark, you were able to come down that lane, were you? Had your brothers left home by then?
ET: No, they were at home then, all at home then.
GE: All helping on the farm. When did they leave? When they got married?
ET: My eldest brother went to live at Jep's Farm; that's between Hoddesdon and Hertford, Hertford and Hoddesdon, on the back road …. That's where he went when he was first married.
GE: But when Mrs. Brooks, when she married - Well, she was Chopping (??????), wasn't she? Where did they live?
ET: They lived in a little wooden house opposite the church.
GE: But they didn't farm?
ET: Yes, Uncle Will did.
GE: But not down at Stockings?
ET: He carried on when my Dad died to help Mum round the farm.
GE: And finally they gave it up ….
JL: They gave it up when Granny died. Mr. Rochford bought it when Squire Baker sold all the farms around. Old Mr. Rochford bought it and after Granny died he wanted it for Peter Rochford, you see. He didn't farm it, of course. Grubbs farmed it, the land, when Peter Rochford was there.
(End of side A)
(Side B)
ES: I wanted to ask you what your earliest memory is?
ET: My earliest memory? Milking the cows, dear.
ES: Was that in the morning? Did you have a little three-legged stool?
ET: Yes.
ES: Just like the pictures; right.
ET: My second memory was when my baby brother was born. I remember waking up and hearing a baby cry and I thought it was someone …. a fox was after the chickens. So I called out to my Dad. I said, "Oh, Dad, the fox is amongst Mum's chickens. Get up quick."
ES: How old were you?
ET: 14.
ES: What had they told you, then? Didn't you know your mother was expecting a child?
ET: Oh, no. Oh, no, no.
ES: What did you think was happening to her? Didn't you think you your mother was getting fat?
ET: Yes.
ES: Oh.
ET: Oh, my dear, we weren't allowed to think anything about that kind of thing.
ES: Didn't you have any sex education?
ET: No.
GE: …. Did you have many books in your house? Did you read as a child?
ET: No. Oh, I wasn't allowed to read.
GE: You weren't allowed to read?
ET: Oh, pray, no. Dad used to say if I picked up the newspaper, "Can't you find a better job than that? Because I'll soon find you one."
GE: What, because in the house you had to dust or sweep or polish, did you?
ET: Yes!
ES: Scrub?
ET: Oh yes, scrub that back kitchen, those old bricks. And the bricks were not laid flat like they lay them now. They were laid end ways, like that (gestures). They used to skin the tops of my fingers where I used to catch them on the bricks.
ES: No rubber gloves to wear.
ET: Oh, no.
ES: But they were kind parents? Is this just the childhood of an average girl who had to really work hard?
ET: Oh yes. Because I was the only girl, you see …. Didn't have any other sisters.
ES: What about the boys? Were they treated differently?
ET: Yes.
ES: Yes. I mean, they had their own free time and could please themselves more?
ET: Yes. I used to have to clean their boots every Saturday morning, clean their ordinary shoes …. and their working boots and their leggings. Every Saturday morning.
JL: Women were slaves in those days.
GE: Yes, well, they were, weren't they? And they didn't give you anything for it? Not a penny or anything?
ET: Oh no. Not a halfpenny.
GE: Did you have pocket money?
ET: No! Oh, no!
GE: Were you ever able to go and buy sweets up in the village shop?
ET: No! No! My Dad used to buy me a quarter of a pound of almond toffee every Saturday. That used to have to last me the week. They used to be in little round bowls. Almond toffee.
GE: You can remember the taste of it, can you?
ES: So when you left school at 14 you didn't go and get a job, you just stayed at home and carried on ….
ET: I wanted to go. I wanted to be a nurse, very badly but, no, my Dad said, "Your place is at home here, looking after us."
ES: Yes. That was hard.
GE: Yes, well, I suppose you had to help your mother, with all those men around.
ET: Oh, I didn't have an easy childhood, far from it.
GE: But, were you able to go out any time on the evening, after you got to 15 and 16? Out to parties up in the village? Did they have anything ….
ET: Oh, yes, we used to have lovely parties in the Village Hall.
GE: Did you?
ES: Who organized those?
ET: Different people.
GE: What, the Rector, I suppose.
ET: Yes, the Rector used to do a lot of organizing.
GE: Yes.
ES: So quite a lot of the entertainment was via the church.
ET: Oh yes.
ES: Perhaps your father wouldn't have let you go otherwise.
ET: I don't suppose he would. The Rector, I mean, old Mr. Gibson was here. We used to have what he used to call an alternative service in the Rectory and then we used to have a lovely tea and dinner after the service. Always used to have that one a week, every Wednesday during the winter.
GE: Do you mean that was for anybody, the village, or just the women or girls?
ET: Anybody, anybody. All them that went to church.
GE: Oh, I see. All those that went to church.
ET: We used to have that every Wednesday afternoon and evening. And in the summer time she used to have beautiful garden parties in the Rectory gardens.
GE: But was the Rectory the big one next to the church, that big house?
ET: Yes! The new Rectory, what we call the Rectory now, we had that built because Mrs. Gibson wouldn't live at the old rectory. She said it was haunted …. And she was afraid. And the village had to build the new Rectory.
GE: Well, it was a good excuse because it was a very big house, with a huge garden.
ES: Did you ever know what haunted it? What sort of ghost it was? Did she ever say?
ET: No, she never said, dear.
(They speak of the big houses, and their owners, that used to be in Little Berkhampstead; The Danes, Mrs. Crosland, Major Soames, Mrs. Daniels and Miss Emily.
ES: Did your parents have much of a social life? Did they,go out, or did your father go out to the pub?
ES: Oh, no.
ES: Did they have couples in?
ET: They used to have company, a lot of company, but Dad never went to a pub. Oh, pray, no!
GE: A lot of people did, didn't they? But he didn't approve of it?
ET: He didn't approve of going in the daytime. Or the evening. He used to go sometimes weekends, when he used to go to Hertford.
GE: Oh he did, did he?
JL: But they used to have beer in barrels at home, didn't they, in those days?
GE: Did he make beer?
ET: No, he used to have McMullen's.
GE: Because a lot of small farms, I mean, Little Culver Wood, they made beer, didn't they? In our old house they made beer.
ET: No, we didn't ever make beer at home. We used to have it from McMullen's and in the haytime and harvest I used to have to carry two two-gallon jars of beer out into the hayfield and harvest field and take it round to the men.
GE: Did you make cider, too?
ET: No, no, we didn't.
ES: But was harvest, apart from obviously being very hard work, was the harvest time a jolly time? I mean, the hay wagon, and was there a harvest supper, and so on?
ET: Oh, yes. At the end of the season we always had a harvest supper.
ES: And where was that held? At the farm?
ET: Yes, and then they used to hold a big one in the Village Hall.
GE: What, the whole village?
ET: The whole village. It used to be on St. Andrew's Day.
GE: Oh yes. Oh, as late as that? St. Andrew's Day's! The end of November! It was quite late, wasn't it?
ET: Oh, St. Andrew's Day was a great day in Berkhampstead in my day.
GE: It's St. Andrew's Church, isn't it? Yes. The patron saint. I don't know why because he's a Scottish saint. I don't know how he got down here.
ET: On St. Andrew's Day, we used to have a big day in the village on St. Andrew's Day. We always used to have a Christmas tree in the Village Hall on St. Andrew's Day and a tea, lovely tea. Used to have to go to church first and then to the tea and the Christmas tree in the afternoon.
GE: Did you have another Christmas party then at Christmas time? Did you have village parties then?
ET: Used to be the village party on St. Andrew's Day.
GE: Instead of having it at Christmas, yes.
ES: And what was your Christmas like at home?
ET: Oh lovely. We used to have a lovely time.
ES: What did you have? A goose or a turkey?
ET: Always had a turkey Christmas Day.
ES: And would other people come and visit you then?
ET: Our own relatives.
ES: And, what did you have? Crackers and paper hats?
ET: Oh yes. Lovely Christmas tree.
ES: And stockings in the morning? And was your family well-off, or moderately well-off or struggling, or ….
ET: Well, I suppose they was moderately well-off. Moderate.
ES: Yes, but you had to work very hard despite that.
ET: Oh, yes!
ES: Didn't they have any help in the house?
ET: No!
ES: Because that was unusual, really, wasn't it, in those days? But perhaps not unusual in the country but, I mean, in the town even modestly comfortable people would have a maid.
ET: In the latter part of my life when I lived at home we used to have a woman come and help Mum do the washing. From Bayford!
GE: Oh, really? Because a lot of farms, I mean, people you wouldn't think were very well-off had people. Girls would go and learn in someone else's house, didn't they? They would go and work in
someone else's house and you might send somebody else. If your mother had 6 daughters, she might send one of them off to help in somebody else's house, or something.
ET: My great friend, Florrie Roberts, she went as lady's maid to the Rector's daughter.
GE: Oh, really? Was that Ernie Roberts's ….
ET: No! There used to be two Roberts in the village.
JL: George Roberts years ago used to live at The Firs.
ET: Years ago, dear, he lived at Little Stockings.
JL: Yes, I know. But that's going back ….
ET: And Arthur Roberts lived in the next house up from Little Stockings. He was horse-keeper at Ponfield and George Roberts was cowman.
GE: Oh yes. I didn't know that. Not the same family, is it?
ET: Not the same family. This is Chris Roberts' parents, George Roberts.
GE: 'Cos Ernie Roberts told me that his grandmother lived in the cottage, Park Cottage.
ET: That's where he was born. Ernie Roberts was born there.
GE: 'Cos he used to fetch the beer from Little Culverwood. I mean, whatever it was called then. What was it called then?
ET: Ponfield?
GE: No, the house where I lived in.
ET: It used to be called The Cottage.
GE: The Cottage. Yes, because I suppose it was a little farm.
ET: And where my great friend lived, Florrie Roberts, used to be used to call that the Cottage.
ES: When you …. you and your great friend Florrie, did you ever go into Hertford for a treat on a Saturday?
ET: Oh, yes. Sometimes.
ES: And what did you do there? What would be your idea of a good day out in Hertford?
ET: To go to a dance Saturday evening.
ES: Where would that be?
ET: In the Corn Exchange.
ES: And how old were you then?
ET: 18.
GE: And how did you get in? You drove in?
ET: Yes.
GE: You didn't walk in?
ET: Oh, no.
ES: What, drove in by horse and cart? Who would take you? Your father?
ET: Yes.
GE: But you used to walk into Hertford, didn't you?
ET: Yes, after I was married and went to live in Rose Cottage, I used to have to walk into Hertford, pushing her (indicates Joan) in the pram.
GE: But people did it in the last war, didn't they? Did you used to walk into Hertford to shop?
JL: Me? No! I've walked into Hertford to work, when the snow's been on the ground, you know.
GE: I walked back a couple of times from the cinema.
ES: So, when you got to the Corn Exchange, what sort of band was playing? Or did you just have a piano?
ET: No, love, no pianos in them days, dear. We used to have the violin. Violin and a drum.
GE: Fiddle!
ES: What, more like Irish music, that kind of country music?
GE: Lovely fun, was it?
ET: Oh, yes!
GE: How long did it go on for? Midnight? Twelve?
ET: Used to close at twelve, sharp on twelve.
GE: And then father fetched you home, did he?
ET: Yes. He was always at the door, waiting.
ES: And did you sometimes go into the cinema in Hertford?
ET: Yes, occasionally, but not very often.
(A confused discussion follows about the County Cinema in Ware Road, the Castle Cinema on Millbridge, the People's Electric Theatre at the corner of Maidenhead Street and Bull Plain, and
the Premier Cinema in Market Place.)
ES: But if you hadn't any money of your own, if you wanted a new dress, what did you do? Just ask your mother? And she fitted you up with something?
ET: Oh, yes.
ES: Did your mother make your clothes?
ET: She made all my clothes and my brothers' suits.
GE: Really! But you made your own dresses when you could, I expect, later?
ET: No, Mum used to make them for me.
GE: Your wedding dress, and everything?
ET: Oh, yes!
GE: And the suits, did she? Did she have a machine? Or a treadle one?
ET: Oh no. Used to have one used to turn the handle.
GE: Yes, but you could have one where you put your foot on ….
ET: But Mum never had one of those. She just had the table one. A little table one …. she made all my brothers' suits and shirts.
ES: Was she trained as a tailoress?
ET: No, she just learnt it.
ES: But what would a typical day have been in your life when you were, say, about 11? What time did you get up? You had to get up and milk the cows, did you?
ET: Oh yes, used to have to get up at 7 o'clock every morning.
ES: And then did you have any other duties before you went to school?
ET: Clean my brothers shoes; get them all ready for school.
GE: What would you have for breakfast?
ET: Me? Never used to hardly ever have any breakfast.
ES: And no dinner!
ET: Just a cup of tea. Might have a cup of tea and half a slice of bread and butter.
ES: That wasn't much, was it?
ET: I've had a slap on the bottom may a time for not eating the bread and butter.
GE: Oh, well, you seem to have done all right on it. (laughs) When you came home in the afternoon, what time did you have your evening meal? …. afternoon meal? …. about six or something?
ET: We never had an evening meal, dear. Used to have …. Mum always used to have a cooked dinner at twelve o'clock.
GE: Oh, I see. And when you were at school your father used to bring this to you?
ET: Yes, used to walk up from Stockings up to the school with a hot dinner for me.
ES: What was it in? Was it in a metal box, your dinner?
ET: No. In between two plates.
GE: Yes, can't have been very hot by the time you got it.
ES: But did you have supper in the evening of some sort before you went to bed?
ET: Before we went to bed? My Dad always used to have a piece of bread and cheese and a glass of beer. That was his supper, always.
GE: What did you have?
ET: Nine times out of ten, nothing. Sometimes a biscuit.
GE: What did you drink, though, mostly? Tea or milk or ….
ET: Tea. Not milk. I couldn't bear the taste of milk.
GE: Oh, really? There're a lot of people like that, yes.
ES: Especially if you've milked the cow.
GE: Where did your milk go to? Did your father have to take it to the dairy or was it ….
ET: No. He used to feed calves with it. Used to bring up calves.
GE: Oh, I see. You didn't sell the milk?
ET: Oh, no, no, no.
ES: But you had it. You drank it yourself. Did your mother make butter?
ET: Yes. Always made butter. Twice a week. A big old wooden churn.
GE: Where's that old churn now, do you know?
ET: I don't know, dear.
GE: I wondered if some of them were left in the barn when you left? Did the Rochfords have them?
JL: Uncle Dick had the clearing out of Stockings.
GE: There was a lovely barn at that house.
JL: It's still there.
ET: Two big barns, down at Stockings. What we used to call the 'big barn' and the 'little barn'. The big barn we used to keep cattle in the winter time. It had two big sections in that. One used to be
for the bigger cattle and one for the smaller cattle.
GE: And did they come in in the winter, like they do now? The cattle? Were they brought in?
ET: Oh, yes, yes. Always brought them in in the winter.
GE: Into the big barn.
ET: Into the big barn.
GE: And, what did they feed them on then? What did they make for winter food? For the cattle?
ET: Hay and chaff and mangle.
GE: Chaff and mangle?
ET: Turn the old mangle.
GE: Oh, yes, they had a mangle cutter.
JL: I can remember helping them do that, when we was kids.
GE: Thought it would be fun because you didn't have to do it every day.
JL: And the big old mangle in the barn, too. We used to play with that. Half used to get water out, you know, those big heavy old wooden ones.
GE: But you must remember a lot about the farm, too.
JL: Well, quite a bit but nothing like …. I've never been really interested in farming. Never. I don't like the smell of manure.
ES: Oh well, disqualified straight away.
ET: You get used to that, dear, you don't take any notice of it.
ES: Can you remember ever being really naughty, when you were a child?
ET: Me?
ES: Yes. What sort of things did you do and what was the punishment?
ET: Well, the least little thing Dad used to call a …. was naughty. If you didn't sit up to the table properly … me and my brother …. my brother used to …. we used to sit together." I used to sit between two of my brothers. One used to be very quiet, same as me, and my other brother, Jim, he used to make us two laugh. Always! And Dad used to look up and used to say …. and away we used to have to go and stand on the cellar steps until they'd had their dinner or their tea or whatever meal they was having.
GE: He was quite strict, was he?
ET: Oh, very strict. Very strict.
GE: He didn't join in and laugh too?
ET: I can remember that as well as yesterday. And he never used to speak to us. He just used to look across the table, (mimics her father's admonishing finger,) used to go and away we used to have to get up from the table and go and stand on the cellar steps 'til he had finished his meal.
GE: Did you talk to him? Were you frightened of him?
ET: No. I loved my Dad.
GE: And he used to take you places and do things and help you, did he? He was kind to you?
ET: Oh yes. He was kind but very strict.
GE: Well, with all those boys I suppose he had to be.
ES: Yes, I suppose if he was fair as well as being strict, it's not so bad. It's only when a person's unfair that ….
ET: You can remember Dad, can't you, Joan? He was a dear, wasn't he?
JL: Yes!
ES: Did you visit your grandparents when you were small?
ET: No, not a lot. They used to visit us.
ES: Where did they live?
ET: Pope's Farm. One lived at Pope's Farm and one lived at Epping Green Farm.
GE: Is that the farm where the Venables were?
ET: No. The one next door. Higher up.
JL: Bush Farm. The other one is on the corner. The other side of the road. As you go round to Newgate Street.
GE: Oh, the A.1 Dairy Farm.
JL: No! That's this end, this side.
GE: The farms weren't very big, of course, then, were they? I don't know how many acres you had but farms now are very big. All the small farmers have been taken over.
ET: Turned into big farms, yes. I think Stockings was 150 acres when I lived at home.
ES: When you were all at home together, and the boys there, say at Christmas and so on, how did you entertain yourselves? What games did you play?
ET: Oh, we used to have a lovely party. Always had a lovely party Boxing Day.
ES: And did you have a piano at home?
ET: Yes, my youngest brother used to play the piano.
ES: And you sang and so on, did you?
ET: Oh yes! We used to have lovely times.
ES: What games did you play?
ET: Oh, all sorts of games, dear. We always had a lovely Christmas tree on Boxing Day. I can remember it well there. I used to dance round the Christmas tree. My brother, youngest brother, used to be Father Christmas and I used to tell him I wanted a dolly. She'd got to have …. I wanted it with (recites) "Fair hair, pink cheeks, and hair as soft as flax, a silk dress and a white hat and a parasol and fan." I can remember that like yesterday.
GE: Did you get it?
ET: Oh, very often. I always used to have to sing to him I wanted this doll.
GE: Yes, well you don't always get what you want at Christmas, do you?
ET: Oh, we used to have lovely Chistmases.
GE: And Christmas Pudding like we have now and mince pies?
ET: Oh yes! Christmas Pudding and always turkey, roast turkey, Christmas Day.
GE: Was it your own turkey?
ET: Yes, one of our own.
ES: Was your mother a good cook?
ET: Yes, very good.
ES: What did you like best of all that she made? What was your favourite meal?
ET: I don't really know. rice pudding. She used to make lovely rice puddings.
(Some more chat about rice puddings, spotted dick and the orchards at Stocking.)
ET: One pear tree, the pears used to be ripe at Barnet Fair. We used to call them Barnet Fair Pears.
JL: The top orchard is now a tennis court.
ES: Was the crop sold from the orchard?
ET: What, apples and pears? Oh no, it was just for our own use.
ES: And did you ever go into market with your father?
ET: Every Saturday ….. used to ride in an old pony trap.
GE: What did he take to the market? Was that the cattle market?
ET: That used to be the ordinary market. The cattle market used to be on a Monday in my days.
ES: Yes, it still is, except that it's just closed, hasn't it?
GE: But it was in Hertford. Behind The Ram.
(TAPE ENDS)