Interviewed by Peter Ruffles (PR)
Date: 16/04/2001
Transcribed by Jean Riddell (Purkis)
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording No: O2001.9
Interviewee: Florence Storey (FS)
Interviewer: Peter Ruffles (PR)
Date: 16th April 2001
Venue: 2 Almshouses, Churchfields, Hertford
Transcriber: Jean Riddell (Purkis)
Typed by: Freda Joshua
*************** = unclear recording
[discussion] = untranscribed material]
(italics) = editor’s notes
[This lady is very difficult to understand. Apologies for any mis-transcription, it’s difficult to make sense of some of it and some sensitive material has been omitted.]
PR: Where were you living before you came here in All Saints Almshouses?
FS: Ware Road. I used to live in St Georges Road, Ware, then I moved to the other road down the bottom there, near the school, but it was no good, all stairs and that and so I had that one along the Cromwell Road. I had him in one year and he died the next.
PR: That was Cromwell Road in Hertford?
FS: Then the council give me one of these.
PR: Lovely isn’t it.
FS: And I been in it a long while now, 14 years.
PR: You used to go and see old Johnny Sartin?
FS: Yeah, I used to like him.
PR: Sorted out a few things. This is really 2 isn’t it? [when these properties were modernised they joined 2 together to give more room].
FS: [doesn’t understand] Yes, this is the sitting room, then there’s the bedroom, kitchen and bathroom.
PR: Years ago, when they were almshouses, they were really small.
FS: They were terrible. Mrs Kavanagh used to live in that bit. I used to go and sit with her. He went out at night.
PR: Still around is he, the son?
FS: I don’t think he’ll be in there much longer, he set the place alight 2 or 3 times.
PR: Raymond isn’t it?
FS: He got no heating or nothing, he’s only got his bedroom and that. They wouldn’t put no what’s names back in there because, you see, he goes* in at 2 o’clock in the morning, comes from London and then he puts the cooker and everything else all on and lays on the bed and goes to sleep and sets the place alight.
*Pronounced in the Hertford way as “Goos”
PR: And in a block of flats.
FS: Well, the poor old soul, lady, well she got her husband next door to him, she was well, out of her mind, right next door to him. And, I mean, he done that 3 times so last time they took the lot out and they took doors off to get it out, there’s nothing in there.
PR: They should find him somewhere else.
FS: They will, they give him so long, he had to go to court, you know.
PR: Yes, is Mrs Waller next door still?
FS: No, Mrs Waller’s down Berkshire.
PR: So who have you got next door?
FS: [inaudible] – blooming lot they are.
PR: Yes, so you haven’t got any friends on this bit?
FS: My Samantha, Terry’s little girl. Yes, that’s Sam.
PR: That’s you and your trolley in the churchyard.
FS: [then a passage I could not understand, something about a bungalow] I think she ought to go and get a doctor’s letter.
PR: For the girl, yes but it should be you’re, I mean it’s a nice place and they’re going to say well
FS: Well it ain’t her’n, it’s them people down on that what’s name, what live down that bottom there, where they used to have the council, you know, down that bottom, well they live down there. They only let out to the council, you see.
PR: Well, we’ll have a little go. But did your family were Hertford people before?
FS: Oh, my mum and dad, they was in Oakers Buildings.
PR: In St Andrew Street?
FS: Yes, used to go to St Andrews church and that.
PR: So what was their name? Was it Hankin?
FS: Hankin, yeah. My husband died before them and I got a square plot up the cemetery up North Road. It’s got the names on and mum and dad are beside him. Then my brother, Albie, he was cremated, and I had the ashes put in with mum and dad.
PR: So they’re all there, yes. So who was on the dust carts?
FS: My dad, Billy Hankin.
PR: I remember him ever so well [overtalking[ and he was on with Jack Catlin, that’s right, but there was only a few of them, it wasn’t like now.
FS: They had to work all hours didn’t they?
PR: So where would your dad have been living when he was on the carts?
FS: Hornsmill, near where the pub is, the bottom there, that road opposite.
PR: And you never lived there though, did you?
FS: No, I helped look after him when my mum died. Well, poor old girl! My sister, what lived with mum and that, she was a terror, she was really. She’d go out on these ambulances. I’d go down there all day, I lived up there then, you see, before the council give me one I went up the top of Mandeville, you see, and I used to leave my little dog up there all day and looked after mum and that because dad had died [it’s unclear from this who died first, then followed a report about other family members which couldn’t be understood].
Transcribers Note: Fleurocarbon (work) Blind mother hit by her daughter
FS: I left the little dog and that and used to go down there, every night I had that, and I used to hit her ? I did, and that. Wasn’t putting up with that and the poor old soul, she was blind. My Terry takes after me.
PR: But sometimes you’ve got to sort it out quickly. When you said she went on the ambulances, did she work on them?
FS: No, they used to pick games ? up and take them to these schools. If I see her in Waitrose. I go the other way now.
PR: Is she still living in Hertford?
FS: She’s had a boyfriend but he’s left her. She can have as many as she likes for all I care. She did try, she got me number but I changed me number. She’s a lot younger than me.
PR: But did you ever work yourself?
FS: Yeah, worked hard all me life. I used to work at schools and all that, in Ware.
PR: In the kitchens or in the playground?
FS: No, in the playground and cleaning.
PR: So it’s a good working family, yours. What about your dad’s family? Were his people Hertford people as well?
FS: Yeah, but they didn’t have nothing to do. They used to speak to dad [Account of relative who was ‘chucked out’ by his wife].
PR: But they looked to you to sort out things, because you were often sorting bits out with John Sartin.
FS: Yeah, because they knew I was the oldest it all came on me, you see.
PR: I’ll start filling the little form in for the museum. So it’s Mrs Florence Storey and is this No.2 (yeah). What was your date of birth?
FS: February 11th 1915.
PR: And do you know where you were actually born?
FS: Ware.
PR: You don’t know the actual place (no)? And then they came back to Hertford (yes). Where did you live as a child?
FS: In Ware.
PR: And did you go to school in Ware (yeah), which one?
FS: New Road School.
PR: Was it called New Road or Christ Church?
FS: Christ Church.
PR: That’s why you get on so well with the vicar [of All Saints].
FS: I don’t see him but Mrs Kemm pops over, about 10 minutes, you know. She’s got little children there today.
PR: Married, yes, maiden name is Hankin. And you had Terry and that was by your first ----
FS: Our Terry’s dad, yes. Tailor, Queen’s Regiment. Big ‘I am’ he was in Queen’s Regiment. Used to work in London.
PR: Was he a Hertford bloke then?
FS: No, he used to be in the army and all that, he used to travel about and that.
PR: You just ran into him in Hertford.
FS: Yeah, took pity on him.
PR: Still, got Terry out of it.
FS: Terry, he’d help anybody out, he will, that’s why I feel sorry for him, when he came home from that court and lost everything [sensitive material omitted]. He’s done all those years in the army and 6 years in the medical corps. He thought about doing himself in.
PR: And then run a good business. And then Mr Bond went off, did he?
FS: No, he died. His father, he’s in Ware cemetery.
PR: Oh, I thought Terry said he pushed off, but he died?
FS: He did push off but then he crept back.
PR: And then Mr Storey, was he a Ware person?
FS: Oh yes, went to school with him. He had a club foot. One of the best, though, he was.
PR: That was 15 years ago was it, that he ----
FS: More than that. I put a stone up there for him.
PR: What job did he do?
FS: He worked at Allen and Hanbury’s and at weekends, he used to help out at the school and all, help me out.
PR: Which school were you working at then?
FS: Christ Church.
PR: You worked at the same one as you went to school at, same buildings?
FS: I had another job before that, I can’t think which one that was. And when I lived up King George’s Road at Ware, Terry’s dad was a tailor then. He wasn’t all that good to get on with.
PR: But Mr Storey was a different kettle of fish altogether?
FS: Well, Londoner and all, a bit, you know, and that. He’d got all medals and all that, Terry’s got them now.
PR: And you still do your shopping – you go out every day don’t you?
FS: Not now, no. Terry’s dad used to work at Hertingfordbury at that tailor’s shop in Hertingfordbury.
PR: Mr Spratt’s.
FS: Yes, used to do all the Queen’s regiment, used to make all them.
PR: Well that’s all we ---
FS: Yeah, I’ll be glad when they get that old boy something. It’s the little girl I worry about. It’s all right saying he’s got a place. I’ve been out there, I know he’s got a place but in that little cubicle thing she is stuck in there but there’s no window or nothing, can’t sit in and have a cup of tea, have to have it out in the garden [more talk of the poor conditions which was unclear] Not able to get a bed in there, no air.
PR: Not good for her.
FS: I wondered if he got a doctor’s letter.
PR: Well, it wouldn’t do any harm, perhaps it would be good. Yes, I’ll get up and see them again soon, I think.
FS: He hasn’t been well [Terry]. He had a bad head and all that.
PR: Has he? I didn’t realise that.
FS: Sunday I think, he went down to Bedford and he should be back today. He phoned me this afternoon to say he’d be home today. He went to help Andy in the fish and chip restaurant. That’s his son-in-law.
PR: Yes, he quite often does that, if he can.
FS: [?]
PR: Oh, crumbs, that’s a worry.
FS: ? as Mrs Kemm said, and that, and the vicar that she should have a little bedroom. But that lady what lives up there near them, the house was at the back of Terry, where the lady was took in hospital, the lady that lived there she phoned up Saturday night, and they took her in a nursing home on the Sunday then they said, when Jill got on the phone to that woman up there, wish I’d been up there, I’d have told her where to get off [this needs some elucidation!]. She seems to be the high almighty, don’t she.
PR: Yes, I don’t know which one they saw but she got upset, didn’t she?
FS: Oh yeah, she got upset and didn’t know what she was talking about, they said and that. Went away that Sunday and when she went on the Monday ? had gone, couldn’t have gone.
PR: No, I wonder whether they were given notice that she was going in.
FS: ? It couldn’t have gone, Mr Ruffles.
PR: No, they’ve had a hard time.
FS: Sammy don’t want to leave her school, she’s so in with that school, you know, and that.
PR: Yes, and she’s going to Sele School next and some of the same children with her.
FS: A bit nearer, can cut through the churchyard. Terry most probably walk through there with her and fetch her home, you know.
PR: Yes, that there and Bengeo or anywhere else at that end of town.
FS: He’d get through from there, Mr Ruffles, but I mean, she’s had a bad time now, Sammy has, been ever so bad. You see, there’s no air – I know you don’t want windows open all the wintertime and all that, but it’s worse in the summertime for her, Mr Ruffles, see. She was only 6 months old when her father used to go in and beat her mother up and they wouldn’t let her stop there, you see. Poor little child was upset over everything, you know.
PR: She’s had a good home, hasn’t she?
FS: Round there all the time but Terry’s a bit worried now, no fresh air and that. Her breathing was terrible when she came down here to see me week before last.
PR: I’ll suggest, like you say, the doctor’s note.
FS: Cembala, do you know him?
PR: I know him but he’s not my doctor.
FS: But he would do it all right.
PR: I think he would, I’ll give a go on that.
FS: Have a go on that Mr Ruffles.
PR: Now, you’ve had a hard and useful life.
FS: Yeah, I’ll take that all with me.
PR: I saw you shopping the other day, do you always go down through the subway – Church Street or do you ever go to Tesco’s?
FS: I don’t go that way, I go that way. I go down the steps when I ain’t got nothing in me trolley, hold onto the rail.
PR: Well, you be careful.
FS: But when Terry’s with me he generally carries it down, you know. He always goes in and gets me pension because I won’t go in there, it’s mad in there. They push and shove you around and that, I did it once and then I got worried, wouldn’t do it no more.
PR: So he’s with you when ----
FS: No, he goes and gets it. He goes every Friday for me and gets it and he brings me shopping, some of it from that little shop up Bengeo.
PR: Yes, they’ve got the Co-op and the one on his estate (Yes). Now, what is the date today?
FS: Don’t know, Mr Ruffles.
PR: 16th I think it is, 16th of April 2001, Easter Monday.
FS: You can check up when you get home on the calendar.
PR: I’ve just been down to Hertford Town football. I came out at half-time because I told you I’d come at 4 o’clock. But Hertford were playing Ware, but they were losing 2 – 1 Hertford. Can you see to put just a little scribble there, just to say that, just put your name so they know I’ve been. John Sartin is enjoying his new work, lives over in Royston and he works in London. Every now and then I see him.
FS: I should phone Bowen Wells up.
PR: Well, he’s only going to be a Member of Parliament a short time now, with a General Election.
FS: Yes, I tell you for why, Mrs Kemm’s son-in-law, he’s an MP, Mary’s husband and Mrs Kemm got in touch with Paul about it and he sent an address for Terry, don’t know whether he took it or not, to get in touch with Bowen Wells.
PR: Yes, he does work very hard for people.
Side 2
FS: He misses Sammy and that.
PR: Yes, she’s lucky.
FS: Yes, she’s lucky to have a granddad like that. That’s all me back garden, Mr Ruffles. I got 2 big bits out the back, 2 long bits.
PR: You were lucky to land here, weren’t you. This is a good place to be.
FS: Yeah, 2 long bits, yeah, but when they take the pots up there it ain’t very nice is it. They come by here 12 o’clock at night, you know, hollering and shouting.
PR: Yes, that’s the college, I suppose, Balls Park College.
FS: Yeah, they’re a mad lot up there, aren’t they.
PR: Where do they take the pots – up to the school?
FS: Well, they left them in there and the lady didn’t see them until the next day. She lives on her own in the school house and that and Mrs Kemm come over for 10 minutes and I went out with her and the lady could see us out there and she called down - have you lost 2 pots? Mrs Kemm looked and she said - oh yes, there are 2 missing, so she said – all right, I’ll come up and fetch them. She said – no, don’t worry, I’ll bring ‘em down. That was kind of her.
PR: Yes.
FS: ? Ain’t it, Mr Ruffles ?
PR: Cor dear.
FS: Ain’t the first time we’ve had that.
PR: That was good, knowing that about Oaker’s Buildings.
FS: That’s where mum and dad lived, down there years.
PR: And was ---
FS: Mum used to get worried because the woman next door used to go over the pub, they did, leave the baby in her pram beside the table and if she woke up she could pull the oil lamp over, and mum used to be in and out.
PR: What about Ivy, the Osbornes, in Ware – were they there, the Ansells, Jim Ansell?
FS: That’s right, yeah.
PR: Did they live down in Oakers Buildings at the same time?
FS: Yeah, mum used to go into that house for that little child because she could hear her crying from her house, you see. She used to go in there to her and that, they’d be over the pub.
PR: But they were communities down there – people knew each other?
FS: They knew each other but mum used to, didn’t used to say anything to them.
PR: They’re my relations, the Ansell family. They said how they had the toilets at the end of the yard.
FS: That’s right. Mum lost my little sister when she was down there and she’s buried up North Road, back of the cemetery.
PR: How many did she have, your mum then?
FS: Nine.
PR: Did she, and you’re the oldest (yeah). Oh dear, and how many still around?
FS: My brother, Albie, died not so long back and the others all went. 2 of them died, she had twins, they died in birth.
PR: Yes, that used to happen a lot, didn’t it. But is it you and Maud, are you the only ---
FS: Only 2 now, yeah. Yes, ‘cos brothers were in the army, Albie and Bill. Lost them.
PR: Well, what a time! So you’ve known Hertford.
FS: That’s right.
PR: And your dad knew absolutely everybody, didn’t he?
FS: Dad did, yeah. He used to sing ? bridge, did you hear, remember that?
PR: No.
FS: The old woman had it got a single bed, down at Scotland Yard, and he ? used to say – come on, Billy, sing it.
PR: Oh how did that go? Did it have a tune to it?
FS: Oh dear, he was the heart and soul of the party.
PR: So what were the words, what did he sing?
FS: An old woman hadn’t got a single bed ? Scotland Yard.
PR: There wasn’t anyone down there called Up the Navy.
FS: No.
PR: Someone in St Andrew Street, they said, used to call out Up the Navy.
FS: Oh, perhaps he did. He used to go over that pub the other side of the road.
PR: Yes, The 3 Tuns. There’s a lot of good families round there, Brewhouse Lane, Hattams Yard, Victoria Place, right.
FS: It ain’t like it was. If you can get up to see Terry.
PR: I expect this week. I am busy, I’ll just have to look for the right moment. He won’t be there now, will he?
FS: Well, he should be.
PR: I might pop and just see if he’s there, I can do that on the way to Bramfield.
FS: Hang on, I’ll ask him, it wouldn’t take me 2 minutes. (Pause whilst she phones). No, he ain’t there yet.
PR: Well, when I get a chance I’ll look in.
A bit more chat, do you only work a half day down the council? Etc. People having bad turns. and then the session ends .