Interviewed by None
Date: 01/01/1998
Transcribed by Peter Howard Burgess
NOTE: This is one of a number of self-recorded personal history transcripts. It is typed directly by the individual and, since it was not conducted by interview, is in a different format to that normally adopted by HOHG.
HERTFORD ORAL HISTORY GROUP
O1998.23
Interviewee: Peter Howard Burgess
Date of Interview 1998
Peter-Howard Burgess, 64,Churchway, Haddenham, Aylesbury, Bucks, HP17 8HA.
Born in Carisbrooke I..O.W. 30, August 1912
Our family of two girls and three boys moved to 9 West Street, Hertford in December 1918. My father was a printer working for Simpsons, later Simson Shand. In Carisbrooke we had-lived in a new Edwardian house with modern conveniences so 9 West Street was a great change.
Early memories are of the Salvation Army Band playing on Christmas Eve under the lamp post opposite my bedroom window and on New Year’s Eve listening to the bells of All Saints' Church tolling out the old year and ringing in the new. We could also hear the bells of St. Andrew's:Church and sometimes the bells of Bengeo.
My younger brother and I had-been for nearly a term to a 'dames' school in Chesham, where we stayed in my grandfather's house In High Street while our mother cleared up in Carisbrooke and my father was looking for a house in Hertford. My' brother was fourteen months older-than I but neither of us had been to school in Carisbrooke although we lived opposite the infant school.
In January 1919 we went to Miss Rosa Hilton's school at, I think, 28, West Street. I could already
read and write. The school room was a small brick building, heated by coke stove, half way down the garden. I think there were about 20 pupils. Miss Hilton did most of the teaching with one or two teenage assistants. The name Violet Salmon comes to mind but I cannot remember anything about her. I cannot remember much about the lessons but I do remember having to stand up and recite:
Twenty froggies went to school
Down beside a rocky pool
Twenty little coats of green
Twenty breasts all white and clean.
I think there were about three more verses and I managed without fault or hesitation. I also remember struggling to make a cross stitch kettle holder - I never finished it! I was much more interested in the bronze Maltese cross which was loaned as a pattern. My brother, Tony,.was much better than I at drawing and handwork. _
I don't think we had regular visits from clergymen although we had prayers and possibly a hymn. I cannot remember the name of any other pupils and we didn't have any friends of our own age in West Street. We played in the garden of no 28 which ran down to the river. I don't remember any particular games but we did go to Miss Andrew's garden in Castle Street for a sports day in the summer terms.
Miss Hilton was very kindly and I visited her for many years during school and college holidays. She had two younger sisters; Miss Mary and Miss Frances who kept a needlework shop between
Stephen Austins, the printers and Maison Carton, the confectioner. I cannot remember any punishment being administered in school. It was generally a happy atmosphere. We stayed there for two years. It was of course very convenient and we could go on our own.
Tony and I went to the Congregational Sunday School at Cowbridge. I did not like it but our mother said we should go if we wanted to join the Wolf Cubs. We had been to a Scout rally in Carisbrooke Castle attended by Baden Powell in person. He told the Wolf Cubs to turn head over heels which they did without bumping into each other. Mother was most impressed and Tony and I were very keen to join. Cowbridge Congregational Church sponsored a scout troop and a wolf cub pack, the fifth Hertford. We joined the Wolf Cubs in 1919 and Tony stayed in the Scouts until he retired as County Commissioner in 1976. I think there was one other boy, Billy Neil, from West Street but he was not a friend.
In 1920 Tony and I went to the Ware Grammar School Junior School, Millbrook. Our younger sister, Jone, was already there and escorted us at first but then she had a bicycle and we went on our own to Hertford East Station and went by train. Later Harvey and Burroughs started a bus service - an open top double decker which I think had seen service in France. It was not very reliable and sometimes we had to get out and walk up the Ware Hill. There were no other boys from West Street at Millbrook so it meant that we made friends from other places.
I think that we made our own amusements. Simpson's had an envelope factory in St. Andrew's Street and we had the use of half of the vegetable garden at the back of the house. Tony and I were allowed to go to this garden to play. The garden ran down to the river Bean with a dipping pool where we floated our boats and fished for minnows and sticklebacks. There was a big yew tree from which we cut a long shoot, hoping to make a long bow. I don't think we had regular pocket money but when we went to the St. Andrew Street garden we often had a penny to buy a bun. We also went for country walks. The Cuckoo Woods off Brickendon Lane were a favourite but as we grew up we went further afield. If there was hard frost some of the meadows - Baxter's Field I think near the Bean - were flooded and gave good safe skating. My mother must have been quite proficient. I still have a letter from my grandfather White describing how he and four of his daughters set out to skate on the Chelmer Blackwater canal from Mervin's Lock - 2 miles from Chelmsford to Maldon. I never had proper skates, We had skates with screw clips to fasten to our ordinary boots or shoes.
In 1918_when we moved to Hertford there was a very tight left hand turn into West Street round
Mr. Camp's bakery. He had a small shop in front with an old brick oven in-the back yard. The oven was fired with hazel faggots. These were stored in the yard which also housed rabbit hutches. I don't know where the faggots came from. I never saw them delivered but the entrance to the yard was round the corner not in West Street. _Most large country houses had hazel copices as part of their managed woodlands. Mr. Camp seldom made anything other than bread but one Easter made hot cross buns when we had already ordered buns in the town. I think we had 6 dozen that year! Mr. Camp also had a large allotment at the back of Castle Street on the ground later used for the new grammar school.
He seemed a very kindly man and it was a great shock when we read in the Mercury that his wife had applied for legal separation on the grounds of cruelty. When asked in court what he had to say Mr. Camp replied, "I will not say a word against my wife." Shortly after this it was announced that No:1 West Street would be demolished in order to widen the road round the corner. Some people said that Mrs. Camp had-heard of this and that was why she had asked for separation. Mr. Camp said he had never seen an accident on the corner. I remember him talking once about disarmament and the League of Nations and saying, "It's the yellow peril that we must worry about now."
My mother. was a staunch teetotaller so we never entered inside the Black Swan, an L-shaped building backing on to Water Lane with a garden running down to the river. I admired the sign and
occasionally we could hear the customers leaving at ten o'clock. No.4 West Street was the off-licence for the brewery run by W.H. & G. Nichols. Mr. George lived above the shop and his sisters lived in No.6. I can't remember ever speaking to any of them. I don't think that Mr. George did any serious work in the brewery. Even the off-licence, also selling soft drinks, was 'out of bounds'. When I came home after the war to find my mother dying and asking for soda water, my sisters could not go across the street to get it. The assistant, who had been there for many years asked most kindly after my mother whom he had heard was unwell. The active management was done by Captain Will Nichols who was also captain of the Hertford Fire Brigade. He would rush off when the siren sounded. I think he lived up London Road. He was one of the earlier car owners frequenting West Street. The only car kept in West Street was Miss McMullen's. Brewery deliveries were made by horse and cart. This was kept in the archway which still survives. Gradually motor vehicles took over and we watched with interest Nichol's driver manoeuvring into the arch.
No I1 was occupied by the Silbys. Mr. Silby was a shoemaker but I don't think we ever tried his work. He was lame and went out in a self-propelled wheelchair. ·Mrs. Silby used to burn the leather scraps on wash days to heat the copper in her outhouse which adjoined the outhouse for No.9. We often smelled the smoke in our kitchen. The Silbys had two daughters who married brothers, I think. One Dicky Hall kept a cycle shop at our end of Castle Street. The other was a booking clerk at Hertford North station. I did not know of any other industrial premises in West Street. I think that Miss Law who lived with her mother in No. 7 did dressmaking and on our way to Miss Hilton's school we passed a large door with the painted board "TUCK'S APIARY'. For years I thought there were monkeys there. I don't know whether they sold honey.
One of my earliest memories of 9 West Street is of staying at home with toothache and Mr. Dye
from Railway Street came to sweep the chimneys. As he got his brushes ready he said, "Many's the times I've been up that chimney with my mother standing at the bottom with a stick." That was the dining room chimney. My father had put in a brass smoke hood as a temporary arrangement. It was always known as this and so it remained for 80 years. The Dye family later had a flourishing coach business. We only rented 9 West Street so we never saw the deeds or found out much about previous occupants. Our immediate predecessor was a Mr. Donovan, a tailor, who had his shop in the room which became our dining room. It then had a large plate glass window with an ugly wire blind. In the cellar we found a large enamelled sign "By appointment to the East India College". We thought this referred to the Donovan's business. Now, realising that the East India College closed in the 1850's, I wonder whether the sign did refer to the tailoring business. Also in the cellar were extensive wine racks. Whether these were to provide for the tailor's customers or whether the East India College appointment was for supply of wines is a mystery still.
It seems possible that the block of land from No. 3 to No. 13 was one holding. In 1918 No.3 had a
large outhouse covering what is now the ends of the gardens of Nos 5 and 7 The garden of No.3 ran behind this outhouse and the garden of No. 9, as it remains to this day. I think this stretch has now been taken over by No. 15. There were 2 walls. The 9 West Street wall was double brick but behind it was a single brick wall some six courses higher and this had arched openings at the bottom with fruit trees planted against the No. 9 wall. One year branches of Victoria plums grew up between the walls. They were covered with fruit and Mrs Scarnell appeared over the top of the wall and hacked them off. I understand that the entire wall has now been rebuilt. I think it possible that there was at one time a smallholding with livestock. In the early I920's a new sanitary inspector came to Hertford and twice called on my mother. The first time he asked, "Do you keep a cow here?" My mother was surprised and just said, “Not!” A few days later he came again and asked, "Do you keep a pig?" "No but I would like to," replied my mother.
With one large window we could watch with interest crowds going to Hertford Town football matches on Saturdays and the crocodiles of Christ's Hospital girls on their Sunday walks. Familiar
figures were Father Maseroni (Macaroni to us) who lived in the lodge at Lee Hoo convent and Mr.
Eastman who managed with great efficiency the bookstall at Hertford North station. He had an
encyclopaedic knowledge of books and was most regular in his walks down and up the street. I once caught a glimpse of the front of Lee Hoo but we frequently heard the shrieking of the peacocks which lived there.
My mother read a lot and there were always books in the house. I had started reading adventure
stories before going to Millbrook. "Danny, the detective" was a favourite and there was a series of
books on the lost world in the Sargasso Sea. Millbrook had a good library and we made good use of the public library at Old Cross. In my teens I started on John Buchan and we watched anxiously for the arrival of his latest novel.
We did not go to the cinema although after leaving school I had some interesting evenings in the
projectionist's box at the Castle Cinema. We had permission to attend the dress rehearsals of the
Hertford Operatic and Dramatic Society's Gilbert and Sullivan productions. They were a great treat to which I looked forward each Christmas. We went to occasional lantern lectures. I remember "With Allenby in Palestine". My mother met a man who was there saying that he could never sing "Jerusalem the Golden" "Far from it" was his comment. My father made lantern slides from photographs taken at a scout camp in Dawlish. Although still a Wolf Cub I was allowed to go with my younger brother, Tony.
My mother was keen on swimming. Her father had cleared part of the canal which ran through his meadow pasture, put gravel on the bottom and when this was used for bathing a line could be fixed across. I think I had my first swimming lessons there. We used the Hertford Swimming Bath on Hartham. My older brother, Michael, was one of the few who braved the cold to bathe before breakfast throughout the period when the baths were open. In due course I joined the Hertford Swimming Club and in one season was a member of the Boy's Relay team which was at all the local swimming galas. Bob Bush and Les Cannon were 2 of the team. I cannot remember the fourth.
I went away to boarding school in 1923 so after then most of my time was spent away from Hertford. I can't remember a favourite meal. We always had a week-end roast. At first this was on
Saturdays but later, when mother had a Regulo oven, it changed to Sundays. "Put the gas on under the potatoes," Mother would say as we hurried out of church, leaving her to chat. Mother always did her own shopping. The meat came from Mr. Reid - later Mr. Kirk - near the War Memorial. This was delivered by horse and light cart. Groceries came from Mrs. Higgins in St Andrew's Street, delivered by an errand boy with bicycle. Bread originally came from Mr. Camp and then from Wren's Steam Bakery, delivered at first by horse and cart. The horse would restrict the time for chat by moving on after a few minutes! Our milk at first came from Ibbott's Dairy at Old Cross. The cows were grazed on Hartham and milked in a cowshed behind the shop. It was very good milk, Jersey I think, delivered by hand trolley from churns and a bucket with measures. We put out a 6 pint bowl and could skim off the cream. When Ibbotts closed we changed to Water Hall Farm - later Grubb's gravel pits - and relatively watery milk. The only door-to-door tradesman was Archie Rendal with fruit and vegetables. He was a very pleasant man, scoutmaster of the First Hertford troop. Somehow his horse always looked rather dejected. He had quite a large vegetable garden and orchard behind his shop in Ware Road. The muffin man did not call regularly but it was fun to hear his bell and to see him with his long tray on his head. Later we had Wall's lce Cream "Stop me. Buy one".
We did not have servants - we could not have afforded to pay a full time servant - but my mother
always had help with cleaning and she never did any heavy washing. No 9 was a very primitive house. There was just one tap in the kitchen and a flush w.c. in the outhouse. There was a limited gas supply. We used gas lights downstairs but we always went to bed by candle light. There was some gas available up stairs and my mother had a gas ring and a gas fire in her bedroom. At some time a portable gas fire was available in the back bedroom. There was a copper in the kitchen and we bathed in a galvanised iron bath there.
Our domestic helps lived close at hand. 'The first was Mrs. Salvage who lived in No. 13. Her husband drove a dray for McMullen's brewery and I think took freely of any spillage. He did not have an allotment or help in the house. I can't remember just what Mrs. Salvage did in the house. She worked hard but also talked a lot. I remember her saying "knock half an hour off for chat." I also remember her sewing carpet-covered hassocks. I don't know when the Salvages left No. 13. It was probably when McMullens changed to motor vehicles. They were followed by the Platts - very different. Mr. Platt worked at-Horns Mill cleaning sheep skins. He was a keen gardener and had an allotment. Mrs. Platt stayed with Mother until the war. I think she was quietly efficient. She must have stopped helping Mother for a time because she had Dolly White, the eldest daughter of the Monks who lived at No. 5. Mr. Monk and his son were roof tilers and went off by motor cycle early each morning, sometimes as far as Peterborough. Mrs. Monk was very kind. She once kept an eye on Tony and I when Mother was away. She tidied up and saw mincemeat in the larder. "I had better make you some mince pies with that." She came back with an enormous dish of mince pies. Later the Monks had groceries delivered by Harrods!
The laundry was done by Mrs. Ketteridge who lived up the street in the terrace. It was always put in the basket on Sunday afternoon, collected by Dick Ketteridge, her son, on Monday and returned on Friday. Dick Ketteridge had lost an arm and ran a greengrocer shop near the war memorial. Occasionally we used the Reliance Laundry, I think that was the name. It was up Ware Road. "Have it country washed" was their slogan. The manager at one time was Mr. Hulbert who' lived in No. I5.
The only other names which I can remember in connection with the big houses are the Bensons in No. 10 and Miss McMullen but I did not know them even by sight. Mother knew the Skinners, Mr. Skinner was Miss McMullen's driver and I knew Kathleen Skinner, the daughter, but she was several years older than I. I think she may have worked with my elder brother for George Sheffield" the chemist in Fore Street.
I left England for the Straits Settlements in 1934 and apart from leave for 5 months in 1938 have not lived in Hertford since although my sisters remained in 9 West Street until 1996.