Interviewed by Jean Riddell Purkis (JR)
Date: 02/06/1995
Transcribed by Jean Riddell (Purkis)
Hertford Oral History Group
Recording no O 1995.14
Interviewee: Percy Chittenden (PR)
Date: 2nd June, 1995.
Venue: Beacon Court, Hertford Heath
Interviewers: Jean Riddell Purkis (JR)
Transcriber: Jean Riddell Purkis
************** unclear recording
[discussion] untranscribed material
italics editor’s notes
JR: This is Friday 2nd June 1995, Jean Riddell speaking from Beacon Court Hertford Heath, the home of Percy Chittenden, and Percy worked at Haileybury College for many, many years; starting in 1917 as a gallery boy. Then in 1932, he started a long career as a dormitory man servant.
PC: I was appointed by Mr. Hake who I'd previously looked after when he was in the deanery for seven years. So he already knew me. The Toby at the time, a man servant at the time, was leaving to go into market gardening work. Well that was the time in 1932 when the new dining hall was nearly completed and Queen Mary was having tea at Balls Park. That's where Sir Lionel Faudel-Phillips lived and she heard that the dining hall was going to be opened by her son and daughter-in-law during the next week. So she asked if it was possible to view it. So the masters donned their gowns quickly and met her at the lodge and after she'd seen them all they took her across the grass, the quad grass.
I was clearing my master's tea things when I said, “There's Queen Mary!” Nobody knew she was coming, and I opened the door for her to go in the big school. And she was a very beautiful lady and she's got a brass handle. To go in the big school and, of course, they've all the names on the seats and chairs. That was given by parents who lost their boys in the First World War. They're very beautiful. After that, they took her in the chapel. Then off she went.
The Duke and Duchess came, of course, he was king after. The Duke and Duchess and they opened the new dining hall and then they had a tent, a royal tent, special people for tea on the terrace. And that was a big day that was.
My duties were to make forty-six beds every morning and to empty forty-six chambers! The floor was a scrubbed floor when I first went there. And then there was the linen to get out. You had to get from the matron's room and bath towels and all that like. But one problem, them days, was hot water. They had a stoke hole down below, that had to heat water for the dormitory above you and yours.
Well, some boys go running after lunch and their run would be over and others‘d be playing rugger. Well one lot come in and draws the water and time they'd got theirs, the water wasn't very hot, and it didn't keep coming through and through like boys think it does. Each boy had a cold bath every morning then. That was the usual thing or if a boy was leaving.
A boy named Barr, a lovely boy, he asked my wife and I to tea with him which was very unusual those days. Because you was still a bit stiff you know, Victorian. And the morning he was leaving I was collecting up linen and sheets and things, and they carried him down on their shoulders to drop him in the cold bath in his pyjamas. And he saw me and he said, "Chitty!" Everyone called me Chitty. My name's Chittenden, never Pearce. "Oh Chitty, Chitty, help me. Do help me," he says. "They're going to put me in the bath." And I said, “I'm sorry sir, I daren't help you. I don't like cold water myself!” And that was the only boy I refused to be helpful for. He was a lovely, he died two or three years ago. I saw it in the yearly, the book that comes out each year about it's got who's married and who's passed away. He was made a Sir.
Oh, we've had some very famous boys. Barry Sheen came through in my time and he was a judge, lovely man, lovely man. And when he grew up he used to come back. He was a barrister and used to help a lot at Haileybury. Well, when he got married, his wife used to come with him and she always used to come and have a chat with me. And I had three of her sons, they're lovely.
So those days all you had for cleaning was loose soda, loose Vim. none of these modern things you know. And the main thing, elbow grease. And lovely bathroom all tiled all around, two baths and footbaths. Well as time went on they said we should have showers.
Well I've seen seven headmasters. The first headmaster I knew was Mr. Mowlem, then Mr. Talbert and then Reverend Canon Bonhote. He was a very special man. He was a bachelor, a very special man. He often used to walk round and talk to all of you, yes. And it was him that told me about fourteen years before he left, "Chitty, we're going to have showers here in due course." And I never forgot what he said. I got a fair memory. He'd left and the other one was nearly leaving. They do fifteen years mostly. Then they had the showers, really lovely. But the boys then didn't have quite such a, you know, all the modern conveniences that they've got today. The food was solid. The food was very good.
JR: What did you have?
PC: Big joint, roast beef, Yorkshire puds, potatoes and nice gravy, you know. And probably jam tart and custard. I remember all the diets. I remember it so well.
JR: What did you have for breakfast?
PC: Oh, breakfast! We had porridge, just lots of porridge that had lots of stirring. My wife as a young girl worked in the kitchens. Had a big wooden spoon. Otherwise it would be lumpy. Sugar and milk. Kellogg’s hadn't come in much then. No! I'll tell you the first thing that come in was Shredded Wheat from Welwyn and they had as much as possible. Sunday morning, being cold, they had boiled eggs and a Shredded Wheat and milk every Sunday. If they didn't have a boiled egg they'd have a pork pie that come from, on the railway. A pork pie each. A Joint would be cold and covered over with a nice cloth on a big dish. A leg of mutton, you called it, mutton them days, no talk about lamb. A leg of mutton, yes, about twenty-five boys that'd got to be cut up for. That'd be one table and the boys had water.
They'd done away with beer before I got there. In 1914 they still had beer, yes. Of course, the boys'd all got something to do. I mean they had the half days and that, but they still played games and that sort of thing. I know one of my boys, it was about '35, he said to me, "Chitty, why aren't I a prefect?"
I said, “Good gracious, why ask me? I'm only the toby here.”
“Well,” he said, "I know you have known him a long while."
“Ah!”, I said, “Yes, I knew him before I took this job.” “But!” I said, “There's a word called trust. If I run backwards and forwards to you and to him and tell stories no one would think much of me would they?”
So he said, “Oh!” He seemed disappointed. Anyhow, a few days later when I was clearing his tea, he was in there, a lovely man, very down to earth, with his hands behind him in front of the fire, a lovely fire. That was another job, get the coal in. And he said, "Chitty, how do you think they're going on in there? You see a lot of them." Well, see, I wait on their tables, wait breakfast and get their linen, and see so much of them. The boys used to love to talk, about good things, about bad things and used to tell me. Anyhow, so I said, “There's something I should say to you. I should tell you this.” I said, I told him the name. But if I told anybody else, I just said Mr. so-and-so. His name was Weaver. “Mr Weaver said to me the other day, "Chitty, why ain't I a Prefect?"”
He said "What did you say?" I said, “Good gracious me. I'm only the toby here. I'm not the house master.” So he said, "He did, did he? Well, if he asks you again, tell him this; are you worthy to be a Prefect?"
And that's a true story. I got lots of lovely stories.
JR: Do you remember him? [shows Alex Bentley’s name]
PC: Mr. Bentley, oh yes. I knew him when he was a boy!
JR: Yes, tell us about him.
PC: You know Mrs. Bentley?
JR: Yes.
PC: She was Miss Pickles, and when she was a young girl, her and her sister, I used to get invited to Christmas parties and everything. Mr and Mrs Bentley lovely people if you happen to see her give her my regards. I went to his funeral at All Saints'.
JR: I did too.
PC: You did too! I'd known him. He was in Lawrence above me, same time as Peter Townsend was up in Lawrence. And he was a lovely man and he became house master of Kipling. So high up, three stories up. And he had to give that up the traipsing that up and down the stairs, you know. And then he was appointed house master of Thomasons. Oh, a lovely man and he was on the district council here.
JR: Oh was he?
PC: And he was on the TCA and all-that. I used to meet him sometimes when I went shopping in Hertford. He's got a lot of trouble with one of his legs. I used to go shopping because my wife had one leg off. She'd ulcers. And she'd the other one off had she survived. She's the person I miss most out of all my relations. I still miss her now. Been dead four years August, buried up here. My son went to the garden centre and got some beautiful Bizzie Lizzies. I got some in my window box.
She used to do her sister's grave for over twenty years and I used to help her. So I had her buried next to her sister and I've carried on doing her grave just the same as if Elsie had been here. But I can't do it now so my son decided give him the money to do it and he went and got the plants and I said put two dozen on Mary's and Jim's, both her and her husband are there. Her daughter comes to see me regular. And I said two dozen on Mum's and if you can't put Mum's in tonight leave them on the ground, they won't hurt. He's gone there two hours and he comes back and I said, “I was wondering if you was coming back.”
He said, “I took my trowel and put them all in the ground.”
I was delighted and I said, “Put mine in tomorrow night when you come.”
But Mr Bentley, oh everybody liked him. Captain Pickles was her father's name and Mrs Pickles was very good at acting. She was big on stage. I can go back. I remember all them people you know. A boy asked me the other day at the dinner, "Do you remember me, Chitty?" And I said, “Yes your name's Fairbairn. You was champion racket player of England when you got to an adult.” And he was head boy of my dormitory. “And you had two brothers here. One had to leave through
nerves.” He said how many years and you remember.
I'm not educated but my mother was very brilliant and didn't pass it on to me. My father was, I call my father 'dad', he wasn't very well-educated. But he was an engine driver so I'm very good at polishing. Always been good at cleaning and that sort of thing. My mother was brought up, taught by nuns. Sister Mercy. Yes, well she had an uncle, an artist.
Oh my grand-daughter painted that. That come out in the family. That was my mother's vase and I gave it to her one day when she was 15. She's 24 now and she painted that. She went to Presdales school and they told her to go in for catering or art but she went in for catering; and yes mustn't get to talking about them.
And I'm glad you mentioned Mr. Bentley's name. Mrs. Nix took me in her car. She took one or two others from up her. They all knew Mr. Bentley. I met a lot of old people there, masters, retired masters came. All Saints church. They were talking about, 1932, well Mr. Hake, 1932. They appointed the first lady superintendent Miss Barton. Well my Mr. Hake fell in love with Miss Barton. Yes, very nice she was, a lovely lady. She'd got a brother at college, so instead of just being the housekeeper, she'd come under the housekeeper and the steward of food in the kitchen. The lady dietician took all over you see, Mrs. Bilk. Wonderful woman she was. She kept up there for a time and then she left. She could make a meal out of anything, beautiful woman. And so in 1938 they got married in Yorkshire. January, about 4 foot of snow. We had an invitation to go me and my wife, but we couldn't go. But we went to see them off in London at Victoria station with a few people to Australia. And he kept in contact until he died. He's been dead about 15 years now. They sent from Australia to me to want to know what I knew about him. So I sent it back. And when the letter came back thanking me so much, the gentleman said, "I'm sure I've met you." He said, “The Australian school team came to England the other summer and I got in contact with you. You were in the dormitory and took me and showed me Mr. Hake's photograph on the wall.” Wasn't it funny? He said, "I'm sure I've met you." And he thanked me a thousand times that's to put in about Mr Hake because I had him when he first come in '21. Looked after him seven years then. And then into the other parts I knew him. He was a wonderful sportsman, rackets, cricket, the lot. So he left in 1938 and Major Wennick was appointed.
He was an old college boy in Melville. And I was in the deanery and Elysium for eight years and my latter part, I had him as a prefect up there. Very smart, very smart man and very kind and Mr. Hake was very kind and very smart. Liked discipline, better for the boys. So I had him 1938, end of 1938 'till 1941. He had to go in, a Colonel in the army, yes. Well then I had him back in 1946 but in the mean time I had another single gentleman Mr. Tregenza. He acted for six years. He was a lovely gentleman. He used to come down and see my gardens and talk to us. But he was very reserved, very quiet. He really didn't want the job, not really. But somebody had to take over as house master and he was quite contented. Well, he kept there 'till he retired. He asked Elsie and I to go down on holiday at Bude, Cornwall. But my wife was always long while making her mind up.
After he retired he went teaching in Adelaide, Australia.
I still lived at home in Hertford, but when we got married in '34 we lived in Hertford. But there was a cottage going along the London Road and after 18 months we come up here. It wasn't my wife, she was a Hertford Heath girl, it was me to and fro, to and fro in all weathers.
JR: What number was that? The number in London Road.
PC: Number 55. My son still lives there. 1935, Canon Bonhote come in 1934 and after he made a lot of difference. In 1934 he had house ties. Each house had different house ties and they used to wear little caps, right on their foreheads. When a boy first come he had his cap in front. As he got older he wore it at the back and they done away with them altogether. I think they thought it was make them round shouldered, keeping their hat on, you know.
Well in 1935 they had all these races, hurdles and everything. He abolished all prizes. Used to have a bit table we scrubbed up and I think I'm right in saying, he said at the time "Winning prizes should be your reward because you've won.” Should be your reward. But he thought prize giving too much, it made it a bit that way so he abolished all that in 1935.
Well, in 1936 the chapel was reconstructed. You used to sit there facing one another. To me I had the memories of the chapel in 1917 with all the stars and the moon and all the beautiful colours. They done away with all that and enlarged the chapel and done away with the beautiful, old altar. I always loved the alter where you preach from. Made it very modern. They had the eagle in front, that got pushed into the side chapel. They had the chapel for small people for communions, small communions, very, very lovely lovely but my disappointment was, specially as I'm hard of hearing, the choir behind you. You're facing that way because the choir's lovely. Highmarsh was another one there, used to be the music master. He was a very popular music master Mr. Highmarsh. He retired and went to Brighton.
1936 it was finished. Archbishop Lang, only a little man, he come for the main service and I remember because the dining hall had been opened in 1932. We had some beautiful armchairs and there were so many people. All the tobys we got together to take one down to the chapel and Archbishop Lang stood on the alter steps with Canon Bonhote. He was the one, he took the service. Course lots of old boys and important people come and I been told that Canon Bonhote gave a lot of his money towards the alter. Oh yes, he gave a lot of his money. He loved the chapel.
[Long pause]
JR: Percy is looking at his notes
PC: 1942 Melville was turned into a hospital for wounded soldiers, so they had to distribute the boys from other dormitories and, of course, as the war was going on the numbers were going down, you see, really, yes. 1927 it was re-coppered. Well coppered not re-coppered. It was slates and I used to walk by taking the food across the quad to the Elysium prefects and the slates are rattling and coming down: very, very dangerous. 1927 was re-coppered and if you went to Wareside, because Wareside's up, you can see Haileybury College shining like gold. And then it went green. 1946 Norpost, that was where the matrons were and single master's rooms. They made that into married quarters. That was where Mr. Bentley was able to go in there. And in 1956 the VC and GC memorial was made on the terrace, that's lovely.
[Percy goes through his notes]
1904 telephone was installed at Haileybury for the first time because they had to keep on having messengers. That was the year I was born. Yes, telephone. And I'll tell you when the electric then. 1924 I remember that, electric light was installed. They used to have their own gas. That was a big mistake. They done away with that because they had, when they had electric, the housekeeper could not cook. You could not regulate it. It nearly drove them mad getting through breakfast. So they had to have the gas installed from Hertford, during the holidays when the boys were away. For making toast, quick what you can regulate. My wife worked in the kitchen then.
Now what else is it I've got to say? [Whilst going through his notes].
These are the masters I was under: Mr. Hake, well I won't put, he was still single. I looked after him from 1932-38 and then he went to Australia. Major Wennick came, well he started in 1939. He was there till 1941. Then he went in the army. And then Mr. Tregenza 1941-46. He was a lovely man. And the when he left in '46 Mr, Major Wennick, you know him as Mr.Wennick. He came back in 1946-62.
end of Side A
Side B
JR: Major Wennick was there 1946?
PC: 1939 – 1941 and he went in the forces and then he came back 1946 – 62. So I had him all those years so I knew about him. He was a lovely man. He had a lot of back trouble in the end.
JR: And you always called him Major, always called him Major?
PC: Major! Always called him Major Wennick. And a boy said to me one day, "He's Colonel now."
And I said, “I don't care what he is. My wife and I had always spoke of him at home as Major this and Major that.” He retired and I had a Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and then they were there for seven years as house master. He had a lot to do. He'd done a terrific lot of work, all languages. When he left, Mr. and Mrs. Richards but they never lived in the house what was built because he was leaving to go as Headmaster at Hereford School, choir school. I had them five years. And my last one Mr. and Mrs. Page, and he was still there when I left in 1983. And he got drafted to work at the day centre, to look after the day boys, after. They still keep in contact with me.
JR: So you were there from 1917 to 1983?
PC: Yes I was there 1917 to 1983. Yes. Oh there were lots of lovely stories there. I had seven masters and I had two, Mr. F.R. Thompson, 1936. I had him while Mr. Hake went to Australia, took a party of boys on tour. And that's what got him the headmastership. They could see what a fine man he was. He was there twenty-three years. And F.R. Thompson was my first head boy the school to look after in 1919 in the Elysium serving food. He kept in contact with Elsie and I until he died, the year after he moved. Oh, lovely man. One time when the major had to go and have something done to his toes, some of his toes off, Reverend Thomas. And after that he was house master of Kipling where Mr. Bentley was once. And he left Haileybury and went to Jerusalem, to a school in Jerusalem. I saw him the other day at the reunion. He went to Jerusalem afterwards. And I got on well with them all,. That's truthful. Never no words with the either master.
JR: I'm just writing something down now Chitty.
PC: Boys used to come and tell me about their bereavements. And one day a boy come out the small dormitory, six in there. So I said, “You're early, sir. Are you going for an interview?.” You know when they've got their dress suit on. So he said, "No, I'm going to, my grandmother died." I said, “I'm sorry about that. They're very special people.” So I said, “What about breakfast?” He said, "I haven't got time for that." “Oh,” I said, “You can't go without nothing.” My masters always gave me permission to have a locker in one of the boys', in the common room and lock it up if I liked, with my own tea and biscuits or anything. I said, “Come into the D.C and I'll make you some tea. And you'll have some of my biscuits. You must have something before you go on this journey.” Well when he come back three days after, I said, “I'll look after your linen and tidy your compart up.”
And I was in the dormitory and one of the boys said, "Chitty so-and-so's calling you."
“Oh, you're back,” I said. “You must have come back last night.”
"Yes!" he said, “My mother's disposed of my Nana's home and she's sent you this jug.” I've still got it, a blue jug, beautiful blue jug. Because I've got lots of things in the cupboard not unpacked but that was kind of him wasn't it. Because she said you'd been kind to the boy, you'll get lots of things like that. And when they had stories they used to come tell me what's happened and that. A boy had family trouble; his parents you know. I never asked the boys, I never asked any boys what their parents were like. Never mentioned their names. It's the boys you're looking after. But boys that had trouble at home. So I said, “Well it's a problem. It's a very difficult thing.” I said, “What you must do. You mustn't dislike one parent. You have to be very even about it.” “Because,” I said, “Things might work out alright in the end.” That's what I used to tell them.
JR: Were they homesick sometimes?
.
PC: Well I was just, sometimes yes if they're very young. If ever I see a boy that I thought was being pushed about I used to mention that. Well I had one boy when he was small he always used to shout to me when he was dressing. I was passing doing the linen and his ribs, oh his ribs were terrible so thin. During my last master's time. I was there with him ten years or more. I said ... his name was Terry???? He had a brother come there too. I said, “Oh his ribs are terrible. I think perhaps you ought to tell the doctor, ought to go on a diet or something.” I never told the boy I was ???? They put him on a milk diet. You could see him improving. And when he was growing up he had plenty to say for himself. He was a lovely boy. And he was come down, made to come down ??? ?? All started with Mrs ? he wrote a lovely letter about her, about the lovely cakes she used to give to people. So he got on really well. And his brother had trouble when he come because ???? took out his side, so I'll get him better. So when he come back I used to make his bed and give him extra pillows and clean his shoes and all that. For latter part we weren't supposed to clean the shoes we had so many other duties but if anybody was sick we had to dress them ???? The other boys haven't time. They're all in a hurry. ???? helping, I loved the job I loved the people. Oh yes, I done very well. That was from my Major Wennick.
JR: The silver dish?
PC: And that one was from the college boys and old boys and that.
JR: The coffee pot? The silver coffee pot?
PC: And that clock from Mr. ? what I looked after in the deanery he was a lovely man. He lost three brothers in the First World War, lovely man he was. He left his house and all his property to Haileybury. He never got married that one. His people were shipping people. Oh yes I've got dozens of stories. Well I know towards my latter part, I had three brothers. One was very good, he shoots for England, rifle shooting now. Well he's retired now and married. Well the boys were in the chapel and I went down into the small part of the dormitory to check on something while he sat in his compartment. So I said, “Oh hello, aren't you well?”
"I'm alright." He said, "But I've got to learn this.”
I said, “What's that?”
"Essay.”
And I said, “Well you know I ain't no good at that!” I said, “You put your mind on reading them. You got to know everything they say for the master.” I said, “Don't worry about your bed or your fagmaster.” They used to have fagmaster hard duty.
“It is as well and in the meantime I'll put the kettle on and we'll have a cup of tea.”
And he ???? and he done it all and after that he's always been close to me. It put his mind on it. He wanted a bit of pushing. I said, “I ain't no good at that, helping you with the thing.” I had that sort of thing a lot. When I first went there I never said that. When I first went there a boy had a curtain hook through his compartment for his clothes. He had a curtain. Come here that boy, and the curtain here on one here. When he got out of bed to dress and that, he had to draw them curtains. Well in 1934 we were going to have a new polished floor and the dormitory was going to be done out. That was during Mr. Hake's time. And Mr. Hake said to me one day, "Chitty, is there anything you can say while it's all being done, any improvement?" I ought to have told you that earlier. So he said, "What is it?"
I said, “The curtain, the board on top of the shelves are about 6 inches wide.” “Well,” I said, “With the curtain for the boy's clothes, it's all a bulge, not how the curtains should lay.” I said, “If that shelf was double the width.” And he had all that done
And even in the holidays, when it was all ready, they had all new red curtains and my ???? we'd just got married that August. And she come up and put every one up, and when the ???? they all hung in order. They used to come in the dormitory and say, “Beds in order.” So all the beds in one line. So they looked all uniform, you know not being military but tidiness. So he had that done.
And then, one term when a boy left, we had so many cups, we won so may cups through his effort and all. He said, "Chitty, where do you suggest we should have another shelf. We've got a bracket there and a bracket there and a shelf.”
So I said, “What about giving the junior end some of them to see.”
"Oh that would be a good idea," he said. They were down there about three terms and taken away. We'd lost them all! They lost them all! Oh I can tell stories, whatever I say it's not imagination it's real truth!
JR: Have a look at that. I've written here that you were born in 1904 in Hertford. Whereabouts?
PC: [Reading aloud from notes] No, Tottenham. My father worked on the New River. He was stoker, cleaner. Then he come as a driver and he got drafted to Amwell. I used to go to Amwell school. That's not there now it's a new one. I had two brothers and two sisters. One sister died young and my second brother got killed in 1918, Edward. I been to his grave in France when I was young, yes. I want my grandchildren to take me this year, but they said they didn't like driving on the other side of the road. My older brother died. He's buried at Ware. Well my mother, father, sister, brother, two sisters all buried at Ware and the other one course he's in France. But my sister I lost, her son died. He had this bone cancer. Lovely fella. He was director of Neil's Garage. Lived at Bengeo. They're proper church people. They go to Bengeo church. Ellis, name of Ellis. She works in the castle grounds now, lovely people.
JR: Tell us again about when you started, now the tape's on. When you started, as a gallery boy. What you did and about the meat and gravy dropping.
PC: The dormitory was done out lovely.
JR: Right I'll just give you that.
PC: [Reading aloud from notes] Oh yes, that polished floor that was hard graft in them days. There wasn't this modern polish. You'd mix it up with a big stick. Get a mop. Put it down and wait for it to dry. Get a buffer. Oh, hard work it is. But it's so different now its better.
JR: Yes the machines do it.
PC: Well after I'd been the gallery for a time, the head waiter upstairs, he said, "You've been up there long enough. I'll have you down here on Saturday, high tea for the rugger players after their rugger.” And I'd had big steak pie, big like that.
JR: Pie? Beef pie?
PC: Steak and kidney pie, not one that you'd buy. Oh lovely. Well he started serving and I got to serve the fourth one and this one he said go to your, put his hand in his pocket and tipped the gravy. Went in between them. I was only young and I run out in the pantry. So he come back out. He said, "Come on my boys.” He said “You're going to have to apologise to the gentlemen." I said yes I was! (Laughs) I said yes I was coming back. By the time I'd got back they'd mopped up theirselves mostly. Never happened again. You've got to put your eyes like a hawk on them, so they can't move! But terrifying then for me, especially the first time; never happened. Well, and then one day the housekeeper was running short of coffee. They used to have a lot of coffee, you know, common coffee. And they said will you go in and out to do it. Well there was a table and a blooming big thing, you know.
JR: An urn?
PC: That, grinder. So the housekeeper come along. She was a terrific big woman. It wasn't the one I've been praising. Oh terrific, big belt with keys dangling round her waist. More like a prison matron really she passed as! Anyhow, so she showed me and come and had a look but in the meantime I thought to myself surely it can be a bit easier than this. I undone a nut a bit, you see. So she looked in there. "What have you been doing? What have you been doing with this?" I said, “I thought it was going to be hard.” She said, "You'll get hard. You leave that nut alone and don't do that again! It's not fine enough" Anyhow, after a year, the fella was leavin' going to munitions. I had to get the butter, run it in a thing, turn up and turn your hand when it come out in threes as long as that. And then you get a load of them coming out. Its amazing how you can do it you know. I thought I'd never do it. Put it on a dish, get a knife, take it to the dining hall, one on your plate, one on yours, all round the hall. And then if the housekeeper or the cook wanted any butter take some up to her. And eggs, used to put the eggs in that liquid stuff.
JR: Pickling? Preserving yes.
PC: And the milk. I used to have somebody helping with the milk, all in cellars, lovely cellars. Electricians took them over when they started with electric. So I was there until 1919, another year. And the man that was leaving, the fella that was leaving was a friend of mine and he was going aboard a ship. And he was aboard a ship practically till he retired and come back to look after Daniere. Bin round the world and I was still there. Well I took the job on. Four masters had to go from here over to that house with hot water for 'em? Weren't no hot water, no baths, not in them days, not there. Hip baths, I had four of them to get. Do their tea, shoes, brushed their clothes. I done that for 8 years. Marvellous really. All through all weathers. You had to go to and fro with the breakfast and tea to the lodge steps. You ever been in the college?
JR: Yes but I haven't seen that.
PC: No. They've got a retreat coming there on the 17th, haven't they? I'll tell you what you would like to go and see, at Great Amwell they have singing on the island.
JR: Oh I have seen that. Yes, it's lovely.
PC: Oh, lovely, lovely, yeah, lovely. Daniere goes and if it's wet, it's in the church. It's lovely on the island. Lots of people go there they'll have to have police there I think! That's nice.
JR: When you lived in Hertford, how did you travel up from Hertford? Did you walk or bike or bus?
PC: Bike. Well talking about that there's another story I can tell you. I had a boy that was in Mr. Hake's time a little bit, you know,
[gestures something to Jean]
yes, true. Mr. Hake said to me one day, I hadn't been there a week, "Have you noticed Mr. so-and-so?” Name was Wilson. I said, “Oh yes, sir, I detected that.”
He said, "Well, you'll find he'll be in the dormitory quite a lot. The doctor's give him this orf and that orf.” The doctor was no age, Dr. Lempriere. He used to follow me around. I used to make him tea and biscuits and try to be friendly with him. Because you know when anybody's got a little something wrong with them the others are mickying them. Well, you get that with boys. They don't realise it can be hurtful.
One morning I came and the first thing I used to do was to go and check the toilets, to see if any boy's been sick or anything, 'cos you get all that sort of thing. In fact I was the clearer up. My wife and other friends used to send for me if anyone was being sick, with me and my disinfectant you know. So I said, “Hello sir, you're early.
He said, "Yes I've got something for you.”
I said, “What's that?”
He said, “I bought you a lamp.” I used to keep my bike nearby and he said, "I've seen your bike and you haven't got very good light coming up from Hertford where you live."
I said, “You shouldn't do that I'll have to tell the house master.”
He said, "The house master knows already." Because you go to them for sixpence or a shilling each morning, you see, and he asked for more money. And I said, “Well, that's alright. If you want to do it.”
Bought me that beautiful lamp but I told Mr. Hake. I said, “I told you in any case because it looks so funny.” So got quite friendly but after next term he had to leave, he had to leave. And six months after he sent that photograph what's behind you there. It was a house photograph of 1933 for me.
JR: Are you there?
PC: I'm on there as well, yes.
JR: I'll have a look after.
PC: Over a year, a year or more, oh, thirteen months, I don't know, I had a lovely letter from him.
"Dear Chitty, I know you'll be pleased to know that I'm passed cured, cured."
JR: What did he have wrong with him?
PC: Family trouble.
JR: Oh, I see.
PC: Wasn't that bad. If you get that there, I'll show you his name.
JR: I'll pass you the photograph.
PC: The first one sitting down, Wilson. I'm on the other end. Nearby six foot four tall, Shackle
His mum sent me a lovely pair of fur gloves to wear on my bike. I got them in that drawer now.
JR: Gosh you've still got them!
PC: I was too shy to wear them. At that time prefects wore them fur gloves. Come up to there by their wrists. So Elsie wore them when she was pushing our son out and I've still got them there! 1933!
JR: Wonderful.
PC: I suppose when you're gorn, I'll think of lots more stories but
JR: Tell me this, where did you live in Hertford?
PC: I lived at The Folly, number 21, The Folly. And that was my parents' home. I lived at number 9, Thornton Street, The Folly for about eighteen months. Then we moved up to London Road.
JR: When you were married?
PC: Yes. So that was all that bike, bike, bike business that got me to move. It wasn't my wife. She used to love walking up with the pram, backwards and forwards, yeah. My wife used to work at All Saints' Vicarage for a little while, the late Randall-Smith. Mrs. Randall-Smith used to treat her like a friend and if she went to London she used to go with her. She took her to the zoo where that boy got killed with that lion, Whipsnade Zoo. She had a lot of nerve trouble. Elsie got on very well with her. And when her husband died she wanted us to buy a house up here what they were building and her to come and live with us. But we thought it over a lot and she'd got nerve trouble, you see. And she was lovely and I used to go down there and talk to her and John coming along thought it was the wrong thing to do. But her father was a solicitor. The vicar used to walk backwards and forwards all the time reading. I don't say they got on as they should have done, didn't row but kept apart. He used to say to Elsie, going in the kitchen, "Morning! What we having for lunch today?"
"Oh we're going to have curry today, sir."
“You know how we like it, make it hot!”
JR: Just a footnote to say that 91 year old Chitty is very deaf so our customary routine conversation was abandoned. Chitty was, in some instances, responding to my written questions.